Question about Raymer's hand

Matt Williams · #1 11-11-2005, 01:57 PM

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I want to double check here. There was a hand where Raymer didn't hear whether the guy called or went all in. Raymer said he heard the "all" part but wasn't sure if "call" or "all-in" was said.
Let's assume he thought the opponent said "all-in". Raymer then says "I call" and flips over his 2 cards. Would his hand be dead automatically for showing his cards to a live player?
I know a player like Raymer wouldn't act so fast and show his cards before the other guy, but let's say it happened to an inexperienced player.

Miggo · #2 11-11-2005, 02:42 PM

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I know a player like Raymer wouldn't act so fast and show his cards before the other guy ...

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I don't get why you think that it is better to wait for the other guy to show first if it's heads up and someone is all-in. I think a pro realizes the betting is done and flips his hand over. I think the less experienced person, is the one that sits there and holds his cards waiting for the other guy to turn his over first. Sorry, maybe this should have gone in the pet peeve thread.

Matt Williams · #3 11-11-2005, 02:58 PM

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I know a player like Raymer wouldn't act so fast and show his cards before the other guy ...

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I don't get why you think that it is better to wait for the other guy to show first if it's heads up and someone is all-in. I think a pro realizes the betting is done and flips his hand over. I think the less experienced person, is the one that sits there and holds his cards waiting for the other guy to turn his over first. Sorry, maybe this should have gone in the pet peeve thread.

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I don't agree with that. I would wait until the dealer told me to turn my cards over to make sure I have the situation correct.

#4 11-11-2005, 03:22 PM

I think this depends on the casino. If nobody else was in the hand, I don't think ruling the shown hand dead makes sense. So, the play continues, but with Raymer at a huge disadvantage. I looked at Robert's rules, and didn't see anything about this.

Miggo · #5 11-11-2005, 03:33 PM

[quoteI don't agree with that. I would wait until the dealer told me to turn my cards over to make sure I have the situation correct.

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You're exactly right. I just get irritated when two people are sitting there holding their cards staring at each other waiting for the other guy to turn his hand up. Then someone says, "What have you got?". The other guy says, "You called me". First guy says, "Yea, but you're all-in". Then finally someone else at the table yells, "TURN YOUR FRICKING HANDS OVER". hehe.

But no, you're right, this is only after the dealer says to turn them over.

Matt Williams · #6 11-11-2005, 03:51 PM

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[quoteI don't agree with that. I would wait until the dealer told me to turn my cards over to make sure I have the situation correct.

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You're exactly right. I just get irritated when two people are sitting there holding their cards staring at each other waiting for the other guy to turn his hand up. Then someone says, "What have you got?". The other guy says, "You called me". First guy says, "Yea, but you're all-in". Then finally someone else at the table yells, "TURN YOUR FRICKING HANDS OVER". hehe.

But no, you're right, this is only after the dealer says to turn them over.

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Yea, that pisses me off too.

#7 11-11-2005, 03:57 PM

According to Harrah's WSOP Rules:

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38. Penalties: A penalty MAY be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, if a card(s) goes off the table, if soft-play occurs, or similar incidents take place. Penalties WILL be invoked in cases of abuse, disruptive behavior, or similar incidents. All penalties will be issued in Harrah’s sole discretion.

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66. A player who exposes his or her cards during the play may incur a penalty, but will not have his or her hand killed.

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#8 11-11-2005, 03:59 PM

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I don't agree with that. I would wait until the dealer told me to turn my cards over to make sure I have the situation correct.

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You're exactly right. I just get irritated when two people are sitting there holding their cards staring at each other waiting for the other guy to turn his hand up. Then someone says, "What have you got?". The other guy says, "You called me". First guy says, "Yea, but you're all-in". Then finally someone else at the table yells, "TURN YOUR FRICKING HANDS OVER". hehe.

But no, you're right, this is only after the dealer says to turn them over.

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Yea, that pisses me off too.

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Here's how it's supposed to work:

Robert's Rules of Poker
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7. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there is a side pot , players involved in the side pot should show their hands before anyone who is all-in for only the main pot.

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#9 11-11-2005, 04:55 PM

Exactly...it isn't necessary or required that you flip your cards over when all in...it is only customary...and of course, you need to flip them over at showdown if you want to claim the pot.

If a dealer is waiting for 2 douchebags to flip over their cards and you are tired of waiting on it...you should just tell the dealer to deal anyways.

tpir90036 · #10 11-11-2005, 06:13 PM

Why does everyone think that hands get killed automatically when they are shown? Being penalized is one thing but I have never heard of any card room killing your hand if it's exposed at the wrong time... tournament, side game or otherwise.