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#1
11-07-2005, 09:15 AM
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A couple of bricked 3-flushes
How 'bout these?
1)I caught a pair, but their boards look scary. 7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (0.63 SB) Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls 4th Street - (3.63 SB) Seat 3: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___??? Seat 3 has been raising pretty light lately; seat 5 is unknown to me. 2)Two over cards, but the pot is small 7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (0.75 SB) Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in 4th Street - (1.75 SB) Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___??? My opponent sucks and could have anything here. 3)3-flush + gutshot for two cold? 7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (1.00 SB) Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets (all-in) Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds 4th Street - (8.00 SB) Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___raises Seat 3: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___??? Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___ Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___ Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds The guy who check-raised is unknown to me (doesn’t really matter though). Most of the others sucks. 4)One over card? Or two? And the pot is small… 7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (0.63 SB) Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in 4th Street - (2.63 SB) Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___folds Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___??? Seat 4 usually completes with big pairs, so I doubt he has queens; kings are quite likely though. Seat 1 is kinda tight and might well fold. 5)One deadish king and 3 suited babies 7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (1.00 SB) Seat 1: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds 4th Street - (3.00 SB) Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___??? These guys were all unknown to me. 6)Scary boards, but my suit is still live and the pot was raised 7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter) 3rd Street - (0.75 SB) Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Seat 3: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls Seat 5: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes Seat 7: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds 4th Street - (3.75 SB) Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___??? Seat 5: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets Not sure about seat 5, but seat 1 is decent. Thanks for wading through this mess. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] 
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#3
11-07-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: A couple of bricked 3-flushes
I pass four and five because my overcard is visible, so I have less chance of making money if I hit it. I'll play the one with the gutshot because it looks like it will be a big pot. The last one I play because the pot is a bit bigger, and I have some straight potential. The first two are the sort that 7CSFAP suggests too many people fold. In both cases, if you catch on fifth you have a nice hand.
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#4
11-07-2005, 09:16 PM
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Re: A couple of bricked 3-flushes
hand one---can go either way. I wouldn't argue with calling or folding here. If you want to gamble, go ahead and call. Short money, fold.
hand two---I probably pick one off here. You are going to have to fold a lot on 5th when he bets again, but if you connect with anything you are getting paid I assume. Folding is OK. hand three---easy call hand four---I dump. Likely you are up against Ks, or a big 4 draw. Yor K is dead, and your ace is up. hand five---fold hand six---absolute fold. you are up likely up against a high pair and bigger draw. yikes!
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#6
11-07-2005, 10:16 PM
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Re: A couple of bricked 3-flushes
This reminds me of a situation that occurs with 3 flushes when you are against a loose aggressive player heads up.
You limp with a 3 flush (you have an ace and 2 babies) in early position and a LAG player raises with a king showing. You know this player probably doesn't have kings but you call and 4th street is a blank. What do you do now? Some players may say you should raise the LAG player on either 3rd or 4th street, but what if he is the type of player who just won't fold. Surely this can't be right since he's going to continue to bluff at the pot no matter what you do. Are you prepared to continue to call on 5th street with just an ace high? What is the defense to this play? I've come to the conclusion that there is no defense. I think the only defense to this play is to make it yourself against a tight player. Next time you see a tight player limp in early position with a small card up and it looks like you'll be heads up against him, go ahead and raise with any 3 cards as long as your up card is a 9 or better. If he hits a suited card on 4th and you don't make anything, check and fold. If he catches a blank bet and expect to pickup the pot. Notice you'll be winning the pot more than 50% of the time on 4th street if he does have a 3 flush. Also you are inducing a mistake, which is how you make money in poker, if he could see you had nothing he'd be incorrect to fold 4th street. Any thoughts on this idea?
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#7
11-08-2005, 12:26 AM
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Re: A couple of bricked 3-flushes
Frappe, excellent post, and believe it or not, an idea I was thinking about myself today.. Lemme make sure we're on the same page.. You have something like a queen showing... Your tight opponent limps with a duplicated 4, with none of his suit out.. You raise, isolate..and just bully 4th, and possibly fifth??? I like it. I think you have to have a bring in capapble of folding most of the time to a completion.
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#8
11-08-2005, 06:15 AM
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Re: A couple of bricked 3-flushes
There’s one problem with this play: you have to be sure you can get it heads-up. Specifically, a loose player in the bring-in often means trouble.
Nevertheless, at the right table, it’s a good play. I don’t think I’ve ever tried it at 5/10, but I’ve used it at 10/20 a few times. What’s especially nice is that in the 10/20 structure some players (LittleMoon for instance) won’t even call the completion without an over card if you get it heads-up (correctly, of course), so you win it right there. Like you said, there’s really no defence against this play; against a LAP you can’t fight back because he isn’t going to fold, and against a TAP, you can’t risk it because he’s going to have something the vast majority of the time. The only defence would be to find a game that’s less tight-aggressive or to simply stop limping with 3-flushes first in from EP unless they are very live and/or contain over cards; or you do limp but then just fold if you find yourself HU (that’d be my choice). One more thing - I think that this play probably works better in tightly structured games, because good players are less likely to call you on 4th and 5th (because the pot is smaller and because you’re supposedly more likely to have a real hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ). In a higher ante game, on the other hand, you’ll probably often get a call from 3-flush + pair type hands etc. IIRC, 7CSFAP even mentions this - something about semi-bluffing more on the early rounds because the pot is smaller. Maybe blmpkin has some more thoughs on this. I’m sure he uses this play to excess. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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