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#11
11-01-2005, 10:58 AM
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Re: Kill them -- and then dump the bodies in lime
[ QUOTE ] In fact, your argument seems to contradict your narrative for why Israel is created; wasn't your argument that Jews have a 'right to return' to the land of their ancestors? [/ QUOTE ] That wasn't my argument. My argument is that both Jews and Arabs had historically long lived there, and were living there at present, but they couldn't seem to get along: which was primarily the Arabs' fault due to oppressive discriminatory laws, and vile and unreasonable hatreds and religious bigotry. Additionally, the Jews were long persecuted in Europe and Russia, and oppressed in Arab countries, and therefore needed a haven. Given all of the above, the location of Israel was the most apt spot for such a haven; and while an imperfect solution, and one which was unfair to a few hundred thousand Arabs, it was probably the best solution overall. Combined with the fact that Israel comprises only about 1/900 of the total regional land mass, the rest of which is owned by Arabs, the creation of Israel does not seem entirely unreasonable, all things considered. Moreover if the Middle Eastern Arabs/Muslims would only take a more enlightened view, and reform their terribly discriminatory laws and renounce religiously based bigotry, the haven state of Israel would no longer truly be necessary. But since Arab/Muslim discrimination against infidels and Jews runs rampant in the Middle East, even to the extent of major legally codified civil rights abrogations and discriminations, and considering the fact that loud Middle Eastern voices call for the extermination of the Jews, in my opinion Israel is a necessary and appropriate (though tragic and imperfect) solution. No need to argue in this thread about the discriminatory laws of which I speak, as I'll be posting a separate thread for that discussion. 
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#12
11-01-2005, 09:51 PM
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Re: Kill them -- and then dump the bodies in lime
Well, this went off track quickly. No great surprise there. I was at a talk tonight on an issue related to the conflict (it was about definitions of terrorism, and used the confict as its main source of examples), and as soon as the issue was opened to the floor it instantly degenerated into an argument about the general rights and wrongs of the history of the conflict, which was a shame as there's plenty of opportunity to discuss that and the issue at hand was interesting. It also attracted an unbelievable proportion of cranks.
MMMMMM, I seem to remember you casitigating Arab governments for not doing enough to integrate/accept Palestinian refugees (apologies if I'm wrong). So what do you think Lebanon should do with them given that a number of non-Muslim communities (and arguably others too) would see it as undermining their position in Lebanese society?
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#13
11-02-2005, 04:02 AM
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Sell the girls as slaves
[ QUOTE ]
The concept of millions of Palestinian descendants "returning" to Israel, which would effectively destroy the Jewish state, should be rejected. [/ QUOTE ] You are avoiding the crux of the matter! Even leaving aside for a moment the fact that you are insanely presuming all Palestinians to be hell-bent on killing Jews wholesale, there is this huge gap in your line of "logic" -- a gap that you have exposed to us yourself, moreover. You wrote - and I paraphrase [ QUOTE ] Descendants are not exiles and can't "return" to some place they've never been. If the "right of return" is actually meant literally, then I might agree with it: any remaining [Jews] from the original expulsion [diaspora], may today return. [/ QUOTE ] Blunderbuss... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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