10/20 Value bet river 2? - Page 2

7ontheline · #11 10-23-2005, 04:20 PM

Why check/fold? Most players would have raised a 9, T, or better PP already trying to protect their vulnerable hand. The better question is whether to bet/call or bet/fold, I think. I likely bet/fold.

Edit: Oops, opponent is LP. Still. . .I like bet because if he's passive he won't bet A-high.

jfresh · #12 10-23-2005, 04:22 PM

always folding to a raise against these types of players, correct?

Lmn55d · #13 10-23-2005, 04:22 PM

check/fold is miles ahead of bet/call imo. Passives aren't gonna be betting a worse hand on the river very often. And somes passives dont raise with even top pair (especially if it's TPWK)...thats why they're passive.

Nietzsche · #14 10-23-2005, 04:26 PM

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yea i would definitely not check/call. It's either bet/fold or check/fold. Check/fold is nice because passives dont bluff too much and he might check a 9 or a better 4. However he's gonna call with ace high because of the paired board and passives do bluff *sometimes* so a bet prevents it. I think it's close but a bet.

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This makes perfect sense against this opponent.

Let's say the opponent is a typical 45/15/1.5 with some trickyness in him. Do you still prefer bet/fold and never check/call?

Lmn55d · #15 10-23-2005, 04:28 PM

I check/call against that opponent because I think it's likely that he has a hand that can't call a bet but will bluff fairly frequently.

Danenania · #16 10-23-2005, 04:30 PM

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Let's say the opponent is a typical 45/15/1.5 with some trickyness in him. Do you still prefer bet/fold and never check/call?

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The problem with check/calling this against an opponent who can read hands a bit is that it will be obvious you have a small pair and you let them value bet with impunity (and hardly ever bluff). I haven't discovered the best way to deal with these rivers against bad but thinking players, but check/calling seems very ineffectual.

Lmn55d · #17 10-23-2005, 04:31 PM

You think a player with those stats doesn't raise a 9 or T before the river? Yea he can value bet the crap out of you, but he's not gonna have a hand most of the time, and even aggro thinking players often suck at value betting.

Nietzsche · #18 10-23-2005, 04:48 PM

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I haven't discovered the best way to deal with these rivers against bad but thinking players, but check/calling seems very ineffectual.

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I'm slowly starting to notice this [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
Passives have it way too often if they bet in this spot. So I agree the decision is bet/fold or check/fold - I gotta get away from my unthinking mechanical check/call habit (10/20, induce bluffs, bla bla) in early position with a marginal hand and base it way more on the opponent.

I almost didn't post this hand as I thought it was a rather clear value bet right after I checked it. But I wanted to make sure I was not just being result oriented.
Glad I did post it because the check/fold line did not even occur to me and I do think it is way better than check/call (but worse than bet/fold).

joker122 · #19 10-23-2005, 07:34 PM

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Check/calling is the worst of the options because you are giving villain the choice to value bet his better hands and take a free showdown with his worse ones (like A-high).

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what about giving him the chance to bluff with a worse hand? hands like J8 or JQ often call a flop and turn bet.

helpmeout · #20 10-23-2005, 09:32 PM

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I'd bet. A-high will call. Sometimes K-high will call.

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So will a 9 a T a better 4 and some PPs.

Before making slim/nonexistant value bets here you wanna have a pretty good read that your opponent is gonna call with K high.

I'd much rather check/call expecting to lose most times because your hand sucks.