Going Pro: The Other Side

[Supersetoy]

I didn't know if this was the right forum to place this in or not...it doesn't really have to do with pyschology, but it's got poker content, so I didn't want to put it in OOT.

Before you read, Cliff Notes: Friend drops out of college and quits job to play poker. He is now in jail facing a few years in prison and begging me for bail money.

Expanded version:

Right now: A friend of mine has been in jail since the 19th of September. This is the TWELFTH time he has been in jail. If you'd like to look him up, he's listed here: Inmate Lookup

Do a search for the last name "Kim" first name "Edwin".

Back story: 5 years ago I met him in college. Good guy overall. Huge fan of the UW Huskies (as am I) so we got along pretty well. I also came to find out that he had a gambling side too (which I will also admit to). Throughout college we became pretty good friends. He was going for a communications major and had a job writing for the student paper. I majored in Information systems and worked for the bank.

When poker started getting more popular, we were naturally drawn to that. I was first out of my group of friends to take the online "plunge" and also was first to try playing live too. I found there was a lot I had to learn (and paid for it). We were all learning together (a few of my friends and I) so it was a lot of fun to play against each other live, or go to casinos, or play online. At this time he and I were both working part time and going to school full time.

Fast forward a year I notice that the stakes he is playing for are getting a bit large. 2 years ago (when I was playing $.5/1 on party) I tell him about a $350 down swing I had between playing online and 3/6 at a local card room. He tells me he's "made a killing" playing the 10/20 online and is considering dropping out of school.

I tell him not to, as we're two years away from graduating, and that he should have something to fall back on. He tells me not to worry about it, and that's he got enough money to take care of himself. After a few months of playing at this level, he's earned enough to tell his parents about his new "profession" (who live in Alaska) who proceed to cut his tuition and rent payments. After this, I rarely run in to him over the next few months except for a few times in the local card rooms because he's no longer on campus. I ask him how his game is going and every time he basically says, "You know how it goes, up and down". But never any real stories of big scores like he used to tell me about.

During college, every February, my friends and I make a trip to Whistler. We're all fans of the bar/club scene there and also love snowboarding. Two years ago, on the last trip we took, was when I noticed how broke Edwin was. I paid for his entire weekend at a cost of $200. That night when we get back to Seattle, he tries to play me heads up for the money he owes me. This is when I realize what a bad player he actually is (going all in many times on inside straight draws, or just with Ace high), and also how degenerate of a gambler he has become.

We start at $20 per game and it quickly escalates to $100 per game as his streak of owing me more and more money continues. He leaves our place that night telling me he'll transfer the money over party. After that night, I don't see him for 3 months, but through a school directory, find his email address and begin to send him an email EVERY DAY demanding my money (weak-tight I know, but everyone he knew said they hadn't seen him). Another 3 months passes and I finally get the original $200 transferred to me.

Stories from other poker playing friends start to trickle in about how he owes everyone money basically. He borrows $200-$500 and then hides from that person. In December of this past year my parents receive a scary call from the Seattle Police. They don't disclose any information to my mom and she calls me, worried and frantic. "Is there something wrong? Are you in trouble with the law?" I am scared too, I assure her, "No, I haven't done anything that bad...recently".

She leaves me with the phone number of a Seattle PD Dectective, and I give him a call. He informs me that Edwin has been in jail for about a week now, and that he gave the PD my phone number as someone they could talk to.

He was wondering if I could post his bail. None of us did. Since December, he has been in and out of jail another 11 times. The only reason I'm posting this now, is because after another 10 months he is calling me again. Supposedly he is in really big trouble this time (and has been in jail since the 19th of September). From the voice mail he left me, it sounds like he may end up in jail for a few years after his next court appearance.

What was he doing? Broke and without a place to live, he was sleeping in the school's 24 hour libraries, sneaking in to dorms and sleeping below stair cases, stealing student ID cards to buy food, and what he continued to get busted for: Stealing computers and laptops from libraries and students and selling them at pawn shops. I know, petty crimes, but he was never "connected" to do other criminal-money making activities, so I think this is the best he came up with.

As for me, I graduated last year, played poker part time the whole way through (and still do today) and now use poker to supplement my income. I just wanted to let everyone see an example of what CAN happen if you go broke after dropping out of school. I understand this might be an extreme case for most of you but you have to realize: The only reason he's in this position is because of poker and how he thought he could consistently beat the game and survive.

[greg nice]

wow

mind blowing story, really. its good to see that you were smart enough to do it the right way, part time to supplement your income while going the conventional route.

i however did drop out. poker probably played a part in it but i had the desire to go my own way before i started playing cards. i also have the brains enough to drop down when playing bad and the experience enough to know i can beat the games.

HOWEVER, im sure your friend told you the same jibberish. so it really is irrelevant what is said. just comes down to whether the person is a moron or not. your friend is. i am not.

[Wally Weeks]

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason he's in this position is because of poker and how he thought he could consistently beat the game and survive.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty on nondegenerates out that thinking the same thing. The major difference is that your (former) friend is a degenerate gambler plain and simple. All he did was use poker as his vehicle of being degenerate. Others use sport betting, horses, etc., as their means.

For some reason, I believe this guy may have had a good chance at being stupid using excuses other than poker later in life.

Wally

[nervous]

It seems that poker wasn't the only reason he got into this trouble. Could he not find a job elsewhere or go back to college?

This is definately a rare case and obviously it was 100% because he was a gambler. It really really sucks though.

Degenerate playing 50 nl at the local card room is a bit different to degenerate gambler playing 10/20 limit online. One is dealing with their addiction by "winning" small -ve ammounts. Other one is going to lose their rent money.

I do think that freedom and liberty to pursue happiness... the great ideals... compounds the broken nature of man. Yikes anyway.

[Supersetoy]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that poker wasn't the only reason he got into this trouble. Could he not find a job elsewhere or go back to college?

This is definately a rare case and obviously it was 100% because he was a gambler. It really really sucks though.

[/ QUOTE ]

My ex-roomate and I (some of his closest friends) are going to visit him in jail this week and talk to him about this. That is, getting a job (somewhere hopefully) and getting himself back on his feet, maybe applying for financial aid...we'll see. Then again, we don't know how long his next sentence will be.

And you're right. Poker wasn't the only thing that got him in to this situation. His parents disowning him for his decision to play for a living basically cut out the only support group (other than his friends) he had. And when we couldn't "financially" support him any longer he had to find the means to do so himself. Why he never got a crappy minimum wage job, I'm not sure.

[captZEEbo1]

I'm not sure what your exact plans are, but I'd definitely not post bail, and I'd try to talk to his family and let them know he needs help.

[yellowjack]

That's really sad, but thanks for posting the story. Make another update when you can.

[Psycho21]

I think this story needs to be published in Cardplayer Magazine. All they ever talk about is how great the poker boom is for everybody, when in reality it only benefits casinos and an extremely small precent of the poker playing population. They never talk about the downside of poker, and how poker has ruined many lives. Poker is portrayed as everyone making millions playing tournaments. A lot of people don't even realize that a lot of these guys on tv are dead broke.

Very sad.

Has nothing to do with "going pro," though, and everything to do with addiction.

Maybe you could suggest to the police/prosecutor that they send him to treatment instead of jail? (Of course, this assumes there are inpatient programs for gambling addiction.)