Yet another Israeli atrocity

[AngryCola]

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I'm just saying that it's absurd to claim that Israel would/should have the moral high ground because there are a lot of Palestinian terrorists and because the Holocaust happened.

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I don't like making "nods in affirmation" posts, but I had to with this one.

Great point, spamuell. I wish more people in the world could look at that particular situation as objectively as you do in your statement.

[arabie]

Like Ive said in other posts, there are atrocities committed by both sides. The main problem is the simple statistics of it. For example, kids of all cultures fail school, however, african american students perform statistically worse in the american education system. Therefore, societie sees a need to fix the problem. This doesn't mean white kids don't have problems to be fixed as well, nor does it mean that they don't fail out of school. Although, it does mean a particular demographic is far worse and can be prioritized with respect to aid.

My example may suck but in an attemp to relate, i'd bet bet, that the majority of those killed on the palestinian side were most likely second degree, collateral dammage or manslaughter. This differs to the guiltful mens rea attacthed to the numerouz first degree murders of israeli civilians. Like i said before, i know it happens on both sides, but one side is far worse. Also, in my opinion, this means that the palestinians are more of a priority when it comes to reform. Israel is reforming constantly because it is a democracy and the different opinions expressed help the country expand forward. Conversely, the palestinian society has consistantly weakened with more support for terrorism and more corruption as time passes.

In addition, you also neglected to respond to an important part of my prior post. I said that these types of acts would be praised by one society and persecuted by the other (whatever the punishment. it is still considered something wrong vs. right, does this have no value to you?)

[Gamblor]

It is absolutely ridiculous that the Holocaust should influence one's opinion of the current conflict.

But it must be taken into context when analyzing the legitimacy of creating and maintaining a Jewish State.

[nicky g]

If they don't like it they should go home. If the Israeli government had any humanity it wouldn't be sending its children to kill and be killed in theterritories in the first place. That the situation is stressful does not mean they should be given the benefit of the doubt in any and every situation; to do so gives them unfettered power and is to effectively encourage these sorts of atrocities, which is exactly what is taking place.

[nicky g]

"I said that these types of acts would be praised by one society and persecuted by the other (whatever the punishment. it is still considered something wrong vs. right, does this have no value to you?) "

Trying to let a child murderer off scott free and then when pressed charging him with minor military technical offences has no value to me. It simply offends me.

Neither side seem to care remorely about atrocities committed by their own side any more. There is now majority Palestinian support for suicide bombs (while the peace prcess was still alive, there was widepsread opposition to them), while Israelis pretend their side never does anything that needs to be condemned and makes nothing but excuses. That is lamentable.

[Gamblor]

If they don't like it they should go home. If the Israeli government had any humanity it wouldn't be sending its children to kill and be killed in theterritories in the first place.

So how do you stop the Hamasniks who think it's their duty to reconquer "Muslim Palestine"?

You've admitted that the terrorists are reprehensible and evil. You want we should negotiate with them?

[nicky g]

You'd be negotiationg with the PA, not Hamas. Regardless, Hamas has repeatedly said it would revert to political means to pursie its goals if the occupation was ended; and I think both sides in a conflict should always aim to negotiate whatever their (or my) opinions of each other are. You know my opinions of Sharon but I still think the Palestinians should be willing to talk to him. Negotitation is just that; it does not oblige you to acceed to the other sides demands.

"So how do you stop the Hamasniks who think it's their duty to reconquer "Muslim Palestine"?"

Establish a Palestinian state and defend your borders with it.

[Gamblor]

There have been negotiations in the past. And when you make peace with a partner who is only making peace so he can restock and reload, you get events like September 29, in which an Israeli border policeman and Palestinian security officer were on joint patrol in the territories.

According to reports, the Palestinian, without provocation, shot and killed the Israeli. The Israeli's weapon was never discharged.

[nicky g]

So split up entirely. End joint patrols, build a wall on the border, whatever. The idea that Israel could not defend itself against a Palestinian state is ludicrous. How does continuing the occupation avoid these kinds of thing?

[Gamblor]

The idea that Israel could not defend itself against a Palestinian state is ludicrous.

You're right. Now there's a wall, which if I recall you have serious issues with.