How do I extract the maximum in this $2/$4 hand? - Page 2

Jeffage · #11 10-13-2005, 05:05 PM

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again w/ the provision that if this person is nuts (ie. raising and reraising on total air w/o regard to anything his opponent could have),

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I believe I covered this. Most opponents who are bad, simply play too many hands and go too far with them. Not too many players will reraise 5th here without aces minimum, particularly predictably bad players. They would just call the raise w/ something less than this or fold absolute garbage. If this person is an exception to what I just said (as in, raising and reraising expensive streets w/ no semblance of a hand regardless of his opponent's betting pattern), call. I just think in most cases, you are better off putting that $4 in a bum's cup than paying off the end w/o a player specific read.

Jeff

#12 10-13-2005, 05:10 PM

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I just think in most cases, you are better off putting that $4 in a bum's cup than paying off the end w/o a player specific read.

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That would be cool if there actually was a bum sitting next to every table holding a tin cup for you to put your money in. All the money I waste on crying river calls would go to much better use.

Jeffage · #13 10-13-2005, 05:14 PM

I guess you've never played poker in Atlantic City. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Jeff

#14 10-13-2005, 05:14 PM

In all seriousness though Jeffage, you only have to be right once in 11 times for the river call to be profitable. The three seat could be betting a lot of things our hero could beat... perhaps a busted straight/flush draw, or perhaps he has a smaller rolled up pair like 10's, Jack's, etc.

All I know is that Sklansky would call this all day. Not that his word is gold, but I think he's smarter than me, so I'll use him to back me up. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jeffage · #15 10-13-2005, 05:23 PM

Sklansky is not going to call if he is nearly 100% sure he's beat. Would this opponent really 3-bet 10's on 5th against someone who has represented queens? If this guy WOULD do something like that sometimes, go ahead and call him (but in that case, why even post it...you have firsthand evidence of very erratic betting so other peoples' input is kinda unnecessary).

Against a typical opponent, I doubt I'm calling this. Again, if you judge that you are winning here the percentage of the time required, call. But calling just cause "the pot's big, the pot's big" when you're nearly 100% sure you're beat is foolish (unless you are getting about 100-1 odds). Against someone who is not extremely overaggressive, I don't see you winning this 8 percent of the time. Just my take, I've certainly made worse calls.

Jeff

#16 10-13-2005, 05:34 PM

Let's say he has diamonds in the hole. On 5th he makes a four flush and knowing that only one of his diamonds is dead he re-raises as a semi-bluff. On 6th he pairs his deuce and continues to bet, representing two pair or three of kind and hoping to take the pot down right there. I mean after the re-raise you have to keep betting.

I think it's borderline. I certainly wouldn't berate somebody for folding on the river as you say. But again, I think there's enough of a chance you have him beat that I would call. And Roland did say that this guy seemed "somewhat aggressive."

#17 10-13-2005, 06:43 PM

I'm not totally convinced he has to have aces here - most aggressive players at 2/4 would raise 3rd with aces. I'm not sure that someone who plays almost every hand would think of the slowplay, especially because Roland is probably the only person playing at 2/4 who would fold his queens on 3rd if reraised.

Anyway, 4th is a raise in my opinion. I would call 5th, because I assume that people take raises into account when deciding whether to bet. Admittedly, this does result in leaving money on the table too often.

7th is a call for the good of society, information and because he might be a total nutter.

kschellenger · #18 10-13-2005, 07:08 PM

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What does everyone think about the 4th street raise? Because I’d usually wait till 5th and probably 6th (because then I can fold once he hits that open pair). But against this guy, I thought I was way ahead most of the time, plus he was more likely to bet 5th even after I raise because he seemed aggro. Good?

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The raise on 4th is good. When I make two pair like that, against a higher door card, I just play it straight up aggressively.

To chime in on the river: I think you must be ahead enough of the time to call the river. I don't think it's necessary for him to have aces up. So I'd go ahead and call.

MRBAA · #19 10-14-2005, 10:45 AM

The 2-4 games on Party now are very good. The fact that this would be a profitable call against many of the players is one of the proofs.

Roland · #20 10-14-2005, 05:14 PM

Well, I had the same thoughts as Jeff on the river; I really thought I ought to fold. Not that I’d disagree with MRBAA - people seem to play somewhat less predictably at low limits; calling stations suddenly turning loose-aggressive, etc. I guess higher limit players, at least if they play regularly, tend to stick to their general style a lot more whereas these guys yield to their emotions and act out of character for reasons not even they themselves could tell you. So calling the river in spots like these can’t be all that wrong either.

Anyway, I decided to call for information. (I’m currently 1-tabling this game trying to get some solid notes and will 4-table once I get my new screen. I can justify some terrible call downs by telling myself I'm calling "for information" [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ).
He showed [ Th 5h Ah 2d 3d 2s Ks ]. I think that‘s worth a note. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]