First post: Question for Christians

[nicky g]

I think this is my first post here. I don;t read this forum much so apologies if this has been dealt with many times before.

In her book A History of God, Karen Armstrong says that biblical scholars generally agree that Jesus never claimed to be the son of God or divine, and that these were attributed to him by the Church after his death. I know very little about this so I had a few questions that might lead to some discussion:

Is Armstrong right, or is this a controversial view among serious biblical scholars/religious historians?

If she is right, why do the Christians on this board continue to believe in the divinity of Jesus? Wouldn't he have wanted to make that clear?

Why do Christians in general continue to believe in a whole set of complicated doctrines and creeds that Jesus makes little or no mention of and that Church theologians forumlated long after he died? Again, if these were important wouldn't he have told us? Why trust the Church/orthodoxy over what you can read for yourself in the Bible?

Sorry if these are ignorant questions. I'm not suggesting that these kinds of questions are limited to Christianity; for instance there's a whole host of beliefs in Orthodox Sunni and Shia Islam that have little to do with what the Quran or accepted Hadiths (many of which themselves were unlikely to have been genuinely uttered by Muhammad, even if they might be in the spirt of what he did and said) says and that were intoduced by various figures later on. This is probably common to all religions. But I'm interested in why intelligent people on this board for instance would continue to uphold doctrines if they have no real basis in Jesus's teachings.

[eOXevious]

If someone told you he was the son of God would you beleive him? Besides, Jessus never sinned, and I think it would be prideful to announce you are the divine holy one, and pride is a sin. He wanted to be remembered for the people he helped. Also, he probably didn't even know he was divine or the son of god.

[Jeff V]

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Is Armstrong right, or is this a controversial view among serious biblical scholars/religious historians?


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No.

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Again, if these were important wouldn't he have told us?

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He did tell us what He needed to.

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Why trust the Church/orthodoxy over what you can read for yourself in the Bible?



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Exactly. These are some of the problems people run into when the "church" gets too involved. These "doctorines" should be tested against scripture.

[Jeff V]

Yikes. This is all wrong.

John 8:14-19 Jesus answered, Even if I do testify on My own behalf, My testimony is true and reliable and valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge according to the flesh (by what you see). I do not judge or condemn or sentence anyone. Yet even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father, Who sent Me. In your Law it is written that the testimony (evidence) of two persons is reliable and valid. I am One bearing testimony concerning Myself; and My Father, Who sent Me, He also testifies about Me. Then they said to Him, Where is this Father of Yours? Jesus answered, You know My Father as little as you know Me. If you knew Me, you would know My Father also.

16:27-28
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.


These are only what i could find in a matter of minutes. Jesus did indeed refer to himself as the son of God and the son of man.

[MaxPowerPoker]

Jesus claimed to be one with God.

Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one."
Joh 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?"
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."

His apostles (not some later church invention) were clear about his divinity:

Rom_9:5; Phi_2:6; 1Ti_3:16; Tit_2:13; Heb_1:8-13; 2Pe_1:1; 1Jo_5:7, 1Jo_5:20

[txag007]

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In her book A History of God, Karen Armstrong says that biblical scholars generally agree that Jesus never claimed to be the son of God or divine, and that these were attributed to him by the Church after his death.

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Why was Jesus crucified? Find the answer to this and you'll learn a lot about who He claimed to be.

[quinn]

I believe the critical point here is that the gospel of John was the only gospel in which Jesus outright says that he is the son of God.

booyakasha
glad i'm not a christian anymore so i don't have to deal with these tough questions