$5/$10 Hand

Roland · #1 10-03-2005, 11:12 AM

Seats 1 and 4 suck. They certainly can both have trips, but they can also just have two pair (seat 4 calls with just about everything here…).
Comments welcome.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (13.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (8.60 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 4: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___

kschellenger · #2 10-03-2005, 11:20 AM

If you think it's likely that seat 1 has two pair, or just the one, call. You're getting 10:1 on your money and roughly 7:1 your flush will come on 6th. So I like a call closing the action.

Jeffage · #3 10-03-2005, 11:28 AM

Why are checking 4th street again? You really expect them to bet your hand for you after your 3rd street play? Giving them all a free card wouldn't be good, no?

After the 4th street (IMO) misplay, 5th is tricky. It is possible neither has trips based on dead cards, but if you raise they won't fold. It's very likely one or both has two pair. So if you have good control and they aren't too aggro, raise and look to check behind on 6th street and play well on the river. If you're not sure, call, you're drawing live I think. The middle guy prob doesn't have trips also, since he would likely raise 5th so you're really only worried about the first. I lean towards a raise unless these opponents will see through it and reraise or are lags and will reraise just because.

Jeff

Spladle Master · #4 10-03-2005, 12:26 PM

I would bet fourth and raise fifth against the opponents you describe.

Roland · #5 10-03-2005, 12:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are checking 4th street again? You really expect them to bet your hand for you after your 3rd street play? Giving them all a free card wouldn't be good, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at this from a pot equity perspective though. It’s not like I have huge equity overlay.

Kc Kd 6d 4d 138362 27.67 361627 72.33 11 0.00 0.277
6s 5s Ac 6c 130441 26.09 369545 73.91 14 0.00 0.261
Ks Tc Td 5h 86336 17.27 413664 82.73 0 0.00 0.173
Qs Qd 7h 4h 144847 28.97 355150 71.03 3 0.00 0.290

Kc Kd 6d 4d 147723 29.54 352273 70.45 4 0.00 0.295
6s 5s Ac 6c 136953 27.39 363043 72.61 4 0.00 0.274
Ks 5c Td 5h 63931 12.79 436069 87.21 0 0.00 0.128
Qs Qd 7h 4h 151389 30.28 348611 69.72 0 0.00 0.303

Kc Kd 6d 4d 170281 34.06 329711 65.94 8 0.00 0.341
Js 5s Jc 6c 116814 23.36 383171 76.63 15 0.00 0.234
Ks 5c Td 5h 57223 11.44 442776 88.56 1 0.00 0.114
Qs Qd 7h 4h 155667 31.13 344327 68.87 6 0.00 0.311

Just for comparison, here’s an example with live kings:

Kc Kd 6d 4d 213144 42.63 286847 57.37 9 0.00 0.426
Js 5s Jc 6c 95469 19.09 404519 80.90 12 0.00 0.191
9s 5c Td 5h 63817 12.76 436180 87.24 3 0.00 0.128
Qs Qd 7h 4h 127554 25.51 372438 74.49 8 0.00 0.255

So with live kings I should definitely be value betting/not giving a free card, but once I saw the case king pop up on 4th I was thinking along the lines of keeping the pot small and hopefully setting up a check-raise on 5th (if the queens bet).
I was also prepared to give up on 4th if things turned ugly (especially if 4th had been checked through), but picking up a 4-flush made me think twice about it.

kyleb · #6 10-03-2005, 01:37 PM

I like call to close the action here.

Jeffage · #7 10-03-2005, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kc Kd 6d 4d 138362 27.67 361627 72.33 11 0.00 0.277
6s 5s Ac 6c 130441 26.09 369545 73.91 14 0.00 0.261
Ks Tc Td 5h 86336 17.27 413664 82.73 0 0.00 0.173
Qs Qd 7h 4h 144847 28.97 355150 71.03 3 0.00 0.290

Kc Kd 6d 4d 147723 29.54 352273 70.45 4 0.00 0.295
6s 5s Ac 6c 136953 27.39 363043 72.61 4 0.00 0.274
Ks 5c Td 5h 63931 12.79 436069 87.21 0 0.00 0.128
Qs Qd 7h 4h 151389 30.28 348611 69.72 0 0.00 0.303

Kc Kd 6d 4d 170281 34.06 329711 65.94 8 0.00 0.341
Js 5s Jc 6c 116814 23.36 383171 76.63 15 0.00 0.234
Ks 5c Td 5h 57223 11.44 442776 88.56 1 0.00 0.114
Qs Qd 7h 4h 155667 31.13 344327 68.87 6 0.00 0.311

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all garbage to me. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's the truth. I don't do simulations, I do SITUATIONS. And the situation as posted requires a bet. You likely have the best hand and your bet may eliminate someone or fatten the pot a little before they fold for you on 5th. I'm also not too worried about keeping the pot small here...so what if they call on 4th with a smaller pair and make the pot bigger. You have the edge that even if they catch two pair, they have to have you NOT catch to win. The hand also plays easier for a bet. You've made the pot large with ur early play anyway...bet your hand.

Jeff

#8 10-03-2005, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kc Kd 6d 4d 138362 27.67 361627 72.33 11 0.00 0.277
6s 5s Ac 6c 130441 26.09 369545 73.91 14 0.00 0.261
Ks Tc Td 5h 86336 17.27 413664 82.73 0 0.00 0.173
Qs Qd 7h 4h 144847 28.97 355150 71.03 3 0.00 0.290

Kc Kd 6d 4d 147723 29.54 352273 70.45 4 0.00 0.295
6s 5s Ac 6c 136953 27.39 363043 72.61 4 0.00 0.274
Ks 5c Td 5h 63931 12.79 436069 87.21 0 0.00 0.128
Qs Qd 7h 4h 151389 30.28 348611 69.72 0 0.00 0.303

Kc Kd 6d 4d 170281 34.06 329711 65.94 8 0.00 0.341
Js 5s Jc 6c 116814 23.36 383171 76.63 15 0.00 0.234
Ks 5c Td 5h 57223 11.44 442776 88.56 1 0.00 0.114
Qs Qd 7h 4h 155667 31.13 344327 68.87 6 0.00 0.311

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with previous poster. You are way overanalyzing it. This is Sklansky on steriods. Play the situation.

And I don't like the 4th street check at all.

PoorLawyer · #9 10-03-2005, 04:06 PM

I think that once you catch the flush draw you need to at least call 5th if your question is between call and fold, thinking that at least one of them has trips. I would consider a raise to represent the flush, but based on your reads they probably are not going to fold anyway. It could buy you a freebie on 6th though.

MRBAA · #10 10-03-2005, 04:16 PM

The pot is big already, so even though you'll lose more often than you'll win, the overlay the pot offers makes doing whatever it takes to increase your chances of winning worthwhile. I bet out on fourth and take it from there. Now I may get checked to on fifth if I play it that way, in which case I'll take my free card. As it stands, you can't fold, raising is too risky into two paired door cards (although I agree the fives is less likely to have trips since he didn't raise), so you call. On sixth you see what develops, but it would take alot to make me fold before seeing the river.