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#21
09-05-2005, 09:34 PM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
No matter what way you break down the %'s, if you cant react accordingly when you think someone is bluffing, then theres a hole in your game. I see this is an obvious call. This is standard Party habbit nicely illustrated.
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#22
09-05-2005, 11:15 PM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
[ QUOTE ]
No matter what way you break down the %'s, if you cant react accordingly when you think someone is bluffing, then theres a hole in your game. I see this is an obvious call. This is standard Party habbit nicely illustrated. [/ QUOTE ] So tell me, if you think someone is bluffing, does that mean they are bluffing 100% of the time? The numbers are EVERYTHING when you are calling an all-in. Determining the %'s that your opponent holds various hands is the most important factor of calling a push, and "I think he's bluffing" without any reads simply isn't going to cut it. I don't know why I am wasting my time with this response, though, when I am just echoing what every other reply in this thread says, and yet you still stubbornly state that everyone else in the thread has a hole in their game, and you are right. Why post a hand if you are already sure that you are right?
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#23
09-06-2005, 01:55 AM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
If you're just going to reject everyone else's opinion, why even post the hand in the first place? Did you want a pat on the back for making such an amazing call? Judging from all the responses advocating a fold, you certainly didn't get one.
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#24
09-06-2005, 01:58 AM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
Hero raises more pf. 20. As played, hero folds.
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#25
09-06-2005, 02:31 AM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
[ QUOTE ]
5 handed, no solid reads Hero utg+1 with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] utg folds, hero bets $2, button calls, sb folds, big blind raises to $5, Hero re-raises to $12, button folds, BB calls. Flop (~$26) J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BB puts me all in fo $36, Hero???? [/ QUOTE ] Making read based calls with no reads = -EV
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#26
09-06-2005, 01:30 PM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
The reason I posted is to see what other people would do in this or a similar situation - and as I said, Im suprised everyone has said to fold.
And again, due to lack of reads I can judge villain as a typical Party player which is obviously a read in of itself. I see this as a call because his bet basically screams of a bluff. If he has played it that way then fair enough, but most players would not make a move like this if they have a hand they are ahead with.
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#27
09-06-2005, 02:41 PM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
Is it a bluff with AK, or KQ? You seem to suggest that the typically PP player will bluff a J in that case many times. Fine, you beat the person playing pocket pairs and trying to represent a Jack, but what about the person who already has top pair (i.e. any K) and is trying to represent the Jack in a stop and go? How can you ignore that possibility? If the flop were J-J-5, then I think your analysis/thinking stands up a lot better, but a big blind who is bluffing with K-8 still makes you drawing to about 3.5 outs....
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#28
09-07-2005, 07:04 AM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
[ QUOTE ]
Is it a bluff with AK, or KQ? You seem to suggest that the typically PP player will bluff a J in that case many times. Fine, you beat the person playing pocket pairs and trying to represent a Jack, but what about the person who already has top pair (i.e. any K) and is trying to represent the Jack in a stop and go? How can you ignore that possibility? If the flop were J-J-5, then I think your analysis/thinking stands up a lot better, but a big blind who is bluffing with K-8 still makes you drawing to about 3.5 outs.... [/ QUOTE ] But villain would never push like that with the K...well, obviously some might, but my point is that typically this is going to be a bluffing attempt to steal the pot and is therefore worth the call.
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#29
09-07-2005, 10:06 AM
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Re: QQ on a dangerous flop, and an all in
"Villian will never push with a hand like that." Come on now, you can't have it both ways. You are claiming they will push with NOTHING, but will not push with top pair? Does that make sense? I don't see any basis for it whatever. If anything somebody would be more likely to push with a King because they at least have a hand.
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