Very Familiar

QTip · #1 11-23-2005, 01:46 PM

Unkowns and this post can be classified as forum clutter.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, MP3 folds, Hero 3-bets

crunchy1 · #2 11-23-2005, 01:55 PM

YUK!

shant · #3 11-23-2005, 02:00 PM

This is straight out of the book right? You played it, but it looks exactly like a hand in SSH that I always had a hard time understanding.

Entity · #4 11-23-2005, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is straight out of the book right? You played it, but it looks exactly like a hand in SSH that I always had a hard time understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not straight out of the book. The pot is smaller here.

QTip · #5 11-23-2005, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is straight out of the book right? You played it, but it looks exactly like a hand in SSH that I always had a hard time understanding.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not straight out of the book. The pot is smaller here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have the book here. Let's say that we think we'll get a free card here about 85% of the time with a 3 bet. I think that's conservative. What do you think of it now?

crunchy1 · #6 11-23-2005, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say that we think we'll get a free card here about 85% of the time with a 3 bet. I think that's conservative.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a conservative estimate would've been around 50% of the time.

Even when you do get a free card and then hit by the river - you're still going to need to recoup bets with both aggressors on your immediate right. I think you're not going to get the return when you make it there on the river and UTG+1 leads the river and you either raise and hope to get 1 extra BB from him or call to try and get 2BBs (maybe 3) on overcalls.

QTip · #7 11-23-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think a conservative estimate would've been around 50% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

WAY too low crunchy. I've played a few hands in these 2/4 games, and my 3 bets on the flop give me free cards extremely often. 85% is conservative.

#8 11-23-2005, 02:02 PM

Wasn't the pot bigger in the SSHE example? There was also a raise preflop and it was fairly easy to see the first better as unimproved overcards, with your three bet buying you two ace outs.

Nick C · #9 11-23-2005, 02:07 PM

I just looked at the explanation for the SSH recommendation for its similar hand (p. 271), and there are some differences I believe to be important.

(1) The pot isn't as big.

(2) The initial bettor was not a PFR. So it's hard to put him on a big ace we could buy a couple of outs from.

In the posted hand, I don't really know what's best.

QTip · #10 11-23-2005, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I just looked at the explanation for the SSH recommendation for its similar hand (p. 271), and there are some differences I believe to be important.

(1) The pot isn't as big.

(2) The initial bettor was not a PFR. So it's hard to put him on a big ace we could buy a couple of outs from.

In the posted hand, I don't really know what's best.

[/ QUOTE ]

How big was the pot? I don't have the book with me.

I'm glad this isn't turning out to be forum clutter because I felt bad posting it.