Poll -- What is Hero's error in this $33 hand

[Steve]

I don't have enough SNGs behind me but anybody have an extensive PT database that they could query for this kind of situation (call PFR w/ JJ & you flop an overpair, or some similar query) and see whether you won or lost chips in the long run?

[Howard Treesong]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have enough SNGs behind me but anybody have an extensive PT database that they could query for this kind of situation (call PFR w/ JJ & you flop an overpair, or some similar query) and see whether you won or lost chips in the long run?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea how, yet, to make PT do that. I've been meaning to buy the $20 PT guide that will teach me how to do things like this, but haven't yet. I think I must.

I don't have a deep database yet, either -- about 5K hands.

[rydazzle]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's face it, most of the time a player will go broke with this hand because most of the time a player doesn't run into this situation, i.e., a higher overpair. Yes, you could have raised and then folded to a re-raise, putting him on QQ, KK, or AA, but unless you are extremely tight, I think you still would have to take a flop here. Either way, once you committed yourself to calling the raise and seeing the flop, you HAD to get all of your money in post-flop. With your stack that low, there is absolutely NO way you can fold on the flop, to do so would be a total tragedy.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you agree with the former of my line, raise, see re-rasie behind, call? You feel this guy is AK/AQ? Then call. You have basically said that this guy doesn't mind the gap (if Hero raised UTG+1) - which on no reads early is assuming donk...safe?

[ QUOTE ]

But the point is, you pretty much have to see a flop here, and you pretty much have to push post-flop. You just got unlucky.


[/ QUOTE ]

you have to push after seeing this flop? smells weak to me: you should have just pushed pre-flop...if you were ahead then, you are ahead now.

There are too many factors involved here that are unknown since he limped with JJ. The re-raise amount would be crucial to know if he had raised UTG+1.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys know I've basically given up on trying to persuade anyone to raise PF (because no one does), but I'll just say raising to 100 and having a solid player behind you make it 300 is the only way to avoid going broke here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not the only way (according to some) but, IMO, it is the only +EV way to avoid it...because if you do go broke after raising and being reraised, you played the hand correctly and the bust should be more than offset by the value you gain from the other times you correctly raised and won a small-big pot.

[11t]

FWIW I said Hero's mistake was calling the raise preflop, but I think it is marginal. It is a mult-way pot with a donk involved, reasons enough to call preflop with JJ.

Yes, with deeper stacks you could re-raise him on the flop and still get away form your hand. However, with t800 without a good read I think folding this flop is going cost you in the long run.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]

If only you all knew how much I hate limping in here with JJ. I think its just terrible, but everyone seems to like it!

[/ QUOTE ]

so are you suggesting to bet here or fold?