QQ facing a weird flop raise

2005 · #1 08-14-2005, 05:02 PM

What do you do when he raises the flop, if you call, what is your plan for the turn and river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

BB (t2790)
UTG (t2555)
Hero (t2500)
MP1 (t2585)
MP2 (t2500)
MP3 (t2670)
CO (t2215)
Button (t3135)
SB (t4710)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t80, 3 folds, CO calls t80, 3 folds.

Flop: (t205) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t125, CO raises to t300

Annulus · #2 08-14-2005, 05:08 PM

Whats so weird about the flop raise? Its a little more than the pot.

2005 · #3 08-14-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Whats so weird about the flop raise? Its a little more than the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not.... There's 205 in the pot, I bet 125, he calls 125 making a total of 455 in the pot and he only raises 175.

West · #4 08-14-2005, 07:45 PM

The thing is, if he has top pair or better and is ahead, what about the board is risky to him? If he can get another 175 out of you drawing to 2 or 3 outs, isn't that a good risk for him? If raising more gets you to fold QQ, but raising what he did gets you to call and consider putting more in the pot on later streets without improving, then his raise is perfect.

Calling the raise does accomplish one thing, and that is to force him to put in more money on later streets if he is on a bluff in order to win the pot. Maybe he's not willing to do that, and it will get checked down.

175 chips is not insignificant to you at this point though, so I'd mostly expect to just fold and give him credit for his hand. If he's bluffing, he picked a pretty risky spot to bluff in, against an EP raise on an ace high flop.

Lloyd · #5 08-14-2005, 05:15 PM

More often than not I think this is a weak Ace. So you're probably behind and your ony chance of winning is if you can push him off the hand. My default at this stage of an online MTT is to assume I cannot push an unknown player off a weak Ace so I'd fold.

2005 · #6 08-14-2005, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
More often than not I think this is a weak Ace. So you're probably behind and your ony chance of winning is if you can push him off the hand. My default at this stage of an online MTT is to assume I cannot push an unknown player off a weak Ace so I'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is 630 in the pot and it costs you 175, isn't calling and evaluating the turn action a viable option here?? I never really seriously considered re-raising b/c I didn't think there was any chance he would fold an ace and he's only going to call if he has me beat.

Lloyd · #7 08-14-2005, 05:29 PM

We agree on the fact that he won't fold any Ace. That's why I wouldn't push as well.

If you call the flop and check the turn and he checks behind. What's your plan on the river? The same concept applies that he won't fold an Ace so the only way you're going to win this hand is if you hit a 2-outer. It's not like you can represent you made some type of draw. The only reason why you'd call here is because you think you might be ahead but I can't see him raising any hand that cannot beat you right now.

I was playing similar hands very aggressively over the past few weeks and just realized that you can't put a move on somebody who doesn't understand that they *should* fold, and that when people raise me early in a tourney they can generally be believed. This obviously changes dramatically as I understand a player's betting patterns and as we go deeper in a tournament and I can assume a slightly higher level of skill. But at this stage I've come to the conclusion that it's better to play straight forward, boring poker.

2005 · #8 08-14-2005, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you call the flop and check the turn and he checks behind. What's your plan on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check and evaluate what his bet means if he bets.

Lloyd · #9 08-14-2005, 05:38 PM

Let's take one step back. What possible hands could he have other than one you are behind on the flop?

Seadood228 · #10 08-14-2005, 05:44 PM

IMO it will be very difficult to garner any sort of new information if/when villian bets. This is one I just give up on the flop in an online game with stacks that shallow, for the reasons Lloyd mentioned. I can see the arguement for taking one off though given it's such a small raise, villian could have you on KK or QQ and raised a small amount with an OESD or even an outright bluff. Either way your call on the flop might slow him down on the turn. The river might be a different story though. If the turn goes check/check, do you allow him to bet at it, or do you throw in a small blocker? Sure seems like an easy way to lose precious chips...