Is this cold call acceptable, marginal, or terrible

blackize · #1 07-06-2005, 02:06 PM

UTG is a rock and raising with AK or better, my pokertracker stats on him have a VPIP of 10% over 50 hands so it is more likely that he is raising a big pair here. The SB is a complete maniac and caps or bets every street post flop. I cold called the raise here with position and what I thought were enormous implied odds.

I missed bets on the flop and turn since if I raise the SB will almost certainly 3 bet, but I wanted UTG to stick around for the ride so I didn't go nuts until the river. So given how it played out was my estimation of the implied odds involved justification for the cold call here?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 5 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

axioma · #2 07-06-2005, 02:10 PM

its terrible.

if youre cold calling with small pairs looking for the set, you need a multi-way pot, as well as somekind of special circamstance.

Buck_65 · #3 07-06-2005, 02:11 PM

It is especially terrible to be playing 9 handed 6max tables. Looks like we found a couple leaks in your game.

jba · #4 07-06-2005, 02:13 PM

it is terrible. you are only going to get 3.5:2 immediately and 6:2 at best on that call. This means you need to make up about 5-6 bbs ON AVERAGE which is not going to happen against two opponents.

meep_42 · #5 07-06-2005, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
its terrible.

if youre cold calling with small pairs looking for the set, you need a multi-way pot, as well as somekind of special circamstance.

[/ QUOTE ]

And when you get there, you need to get the most band for your buck. I'm guessing by the action that UTG had a big pair with a heart and SB probably had another big heart. Given your reads, I think you missed approximately 7 beelion bets here, especially if the turn and river don't come runner-runner [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s.

-d

GrunchCan · #6 07-06-2005, 02:19 PM

The inclusion of the maniac does help your implied odds, but I doubt he helps enough to make up for the short table. This is still a fold PF for me.

Furthermore, raise the flop. The maniac is unlikely to fold and might give you action, and the same is true for UTG. With the drawy board, your opponents and your position, this hand is a cash register. All you gotta do is keep hitting the 'open drawer' button.

Quad_Damage · #7 07-06-2005, 02:22 PM

That was AWFUL. If the guy is a rock, why would you even think of calling with a small pair? On top of that, there were no callers, so that makes it even worse. If 3 or more of the folders had cold-called then it might have been on the low end of marginal, but you're basically cold-calling to two outs. You simply got lucky. I hope you don't make posts berating people for doing similar things to you.

Also, I dunno what implied odds you're talking about. You were against 2 opponents... one was a maniac, so he's the only one you can count on for action... not nearly enough to justify the call.

private joker · #8 07-06-2005, 02:29 PM

I don't like the cold-call, but I like the post-flop play, actually. You waited for SB to get a good second best hand (I'm assuming he had the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]), and you let UTG+1 bet your hand for you with KK or whatever.

As for preflop, I'm folding or 3-betting. If the blinds will fold to a 3-bet, then you might be able to take the pot down on a flop like J93 when he whiffs his AK, or on a flop like A85 when he has QQ. If he caps PF and leads the flop, set it or forget it.

But that's an expensive way to steal the pot, so I think all told I'd muck.

PokerBob · #9 07-06-2005, 02:52 PM

This call sucks.

blackize · #10 07-06-2005, 02:57 PM

Fixed the HH. Its a 10 max table.

Im 1-7.5 to flop a set. Im getting 1.75-1 on my call right now and it will be 2.75 to 1 once the SB calls. Now if I only continue when I hit a set then I can expect to lose 6.5BBs on the call. To make this call breakeven I have to be able to pick up 6.5BBs on the times I do flop a set.

Now UTG is a rock, but he overplays his hands when he gets involved. The maniac really likes to bet. In this case, I pick up 2BBs on the turn and 8BBs on the river which more than offset the expected value of the call. Had I played this perfectly I could have expected to pick up 16.5BB's, and I think this more than offsets the call.