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  #71  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:35 AM
FlFishOn FlFishOn is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

"what the hell do political views have to do with interpreting scientific and statistical evidence? "

Everything related to this topic is interrelated with much bigger political issues. Spin is everywhere, much like the global warming/cooling debate. Few are strictly analytical.
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  #72  
Old 12-24-2005, 04:43 PM
scalf scalf is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

..the elite of all races excell;

there is a fallacy there;

and why wasn't this guy censored.??

lol

gl
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  #73  
Old 12-26-2005, 08:26 AM
bisonbison bisonbison is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

Rduke55, any recommended reading? I've read Steve J. Gould's refutation of the Bell Curve work, and I'm always on the lookout for more good nuanced science/sociology stuff.
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  #74  
Old 12-26-2005, 08:56 AM
Shandrax Shandrax is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
Since, in the long run, the busier these forums are, the more money I make, I couldn't let this comment from Phil153 get buried in another thread. So I repeat it here:

"The fact is that some races and cultures just aren't cut out for civilised society. They breed like rabbits and exhibit widespread features of low intelligence, poor coping skills and aggressive, anti social behaviour. Half of all murders (and much of the crime) in the U.S. are caused by a particular race, and as a minority group, I'm convinced they don't have the brain capacity to survive and contribute positively in modern civilisation. Despite many years and government efforts, the SAT scores of a certain race remain shockingly low. They are on the border of retardation. Even the elite of this race fail to excel. Compare this with any other minority and the results are clear to anyone without a bias. Asians routinely outperform whites and are disproportionately represented at elite universities, despite being a minority and in spite of poverty and limited integration into society."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually a funny quote, because it contains some sort of forbidden truth. Everyone knows that there are racial differences amongst humans, but we don't talk about it.

Just watch track&field sports. It is obvious to everyone that black athletes dominate running. I mean you can't argue against all the world records and all of the white guys coming in last. Same with boxing. We all know the quote "never bet on the white guy". This is a rule made out of experience. Look at the french soccer national team. 1 white guy as goalie, 9 black guys + Zidanne and that despite the fact that France has basically a white population. In other sports it is different. For some reason you only see white swimmers set records.

While this is all more or less accepted, people don't like to talk about the possible difference in intelligence. It is similar to breaking an unwritten codex. Still there is evidence also. Did you know that there is only one black chess grandmaster (Maurice Ashley, USA) in the whole world and his actual playing strength is currently below GM level?

I call myself a racist, but not in a negative way. I don't hate other races and I don't fight them. I just think that there are small differences amongst races which make them a favorite or an underdog in certain areas. Some run faster, some swim faster, some score higher averages on IQ tests, some grow taller and so on. Basically this doesn't have to be bad, just know your strengths and make the best out of it.
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  #75  
Old 12-26-2005, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

Shandrax,

You are making the mistakes that most ignorant racists make altough trying to coach it in palatable terms.

You see, red heads have stronger phrenomes, olive skins don't get as sunburnt as white skins. I am sure there is a correlation between eye color and color blindness. Blod type is more important than apperaances when it comes to blood donations. Those are all superficial features, like saying tall people are better at basketball. It means very little. It is the concept of race that strangely enough is odd.
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  #76  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:18 PM
malorum malorum is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
Since, in the long run, the busier these forums are, the more money I make

[/ QUOTE ]

How come you need more money. Woulda thought youd be able to retire.
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  #77  
Old 12-26-2005, 05:28 PM
joel2006 joel2006 is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

if there was any need to prove that there clearly are environmental influences on IQ, the wiki are contains proof, it says:
"Neither Head Start nor most other (more intensive) programs have been able to produce lasting gains in IQ or school achievement.[7] Gains are lost after the programs end. Supporters note that they continue as long as the programs continue." The fact that gains were made and lost indicate that at least part of the gap IS due to environmental influences. Note that this article uses data from US blacks only, who have been for the last 400 years subjected to horrific oppression (300 years of chattel slavery and another 90 of legal discrimination). Why anyone would chose to ignore that is a very interesting question. There is no evidence that these differences are solely due to innate racial differences. Genes and the environment interact and always must. If one took 2 types of plants, where one was genetically due to be taller than the other and then limited it nutrionally for 400 years, then compared its offspring to the other, its offspring would be shorter, but that says nothing about its genetic potential.
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  #78  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:21 PM
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Of course there are environmental influences on IQ. No one is debating that. What I'm saying is that there's a huge body of evidence from a diverse range of studies that support the theory that innate intelligence potential varies with ethnicity.

I don't buy the poverty idea. Asians in America score almost the same as Asians in China and other poor (second and third world) countries. And yes, this number is HIGHER than the comparatively affluent white countries with better nutrition, education and childhood health care. Chinese score the same as Japanese in their own countries, even though Japan is one of the most affluent and educated countries in the world. Clearly, something is going on here. Africans (and African Americans) score far worse in every country they live in, and pure breds in sub saharan africa score worst of all. In the north of Africa where there's some of the worst poverty imaginable, they score higher than sub saharan africans (closer to the American score - a standard deviation below whites).

Note that this happens across a range of tests (including reaction speed tests), and is supported by anecdotal evidence such as cultural sophistication, technological achievement, university scores, contributions to science, literature, etc. It's always Asian > White >> Black (though in a couple of these areas it's White > Asian, but not by much). The point is that EVERY indicator there is shows this trend, in EVERY country. I think it's clear what's going on here.

I was going to let this thread die but it seems David was right.
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  #79  
Old 12-27-2005, 05:33 AM
Shandrax Shandrax is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

[ QUOTE ]
Shandrax,

You are making the mistakes that most ignorant racists make altough trying to coach it in palatable terms.

You see, red heads have stronger phrenomes, olive skins don't get as sunburnt as white skins. I am sure there is a correlation between eye color and color blindness. Blod type is more important than apperaances when it comes to blood donations. Those are all superficial features, like saying tall people are better at basketball. It means very little. It is the concept of race that strangely enough is odd.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am just going with statistics and I am actually trying to be as objective as possible. It is simply a fact that african americans outrun all white athletes from the US and Europe combined. In France and the Netherlands for example black kids get free education just like white kids, but almost none of them ends up studying physics or math. Now every once in a while one will make it and prove the statistics wrong, but is that really the case? I think it is all within the usual variance.

In my opinion it is ridiculous to assume that racial differences only apply to the likelyhood of getting sunburns. Still you can't have a reasonable discussion about the subject. I remember the heart-medication that only worked on black people and all the discussion about it in the media. The subject is simply forbidden.

P.S.: Before I forget it. If someone ever makes a study about the spread of ADS (attention deficite syndrom) amongst races, I predict that asians have the lowest percentage.
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  #80  
Old 12-27-2005, 07:35 AM
Shandrax Shandrax is offline
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Default Re: This Ought To Get Some Replies

I guess, this one fits it best [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2...seekers-p1.php
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