Top pair fold

[TheLance]

Anybody have a problem with this fold?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero folds

[Entity]

If you're playing this hand on the button, you better not be folding this flop. I think this is a really bad fold.

Edit: I forgot a few reallys. This is a really really really really bad fold. Don't play this hand if you fold it when you hit top pair.

Rob

[VBM]

why did you fold this?

[Shillx]

You saw that you floped a pair of queens, right? come on meow

[toss]

The time for good folds is Preflop blah blah blah.

[the_rookie]

I'm not understanding the fold either. I would raise in this situation.

[TheLance]

I saw this hand as being very vulnerable.

I see the bettor having a better queen, a flush or straight draw, or a combination of the 3.

I was seeing it as the kind of hand where I had little to gain, and much to loose. The odds of me having a decent second-best hand were too great.

The pot was small, and the blinds are probably gonna fold (keeping the pot small) so I pitched it.

Still think I'm crazy?

[Spladle Master]

I don't think you're crazy, I think you're stupid.

Because the hand is vulnerable, you should raise, not fold.

If the bettor has AQ or KQ, why didn't he raise pre-flop? Is the bettor a real rock who only bets with TPTK or better and also happens to only raise pre-flop with AA?

If the bettor has a flush or straight draw, your fold is very bad. It's even worse if he's betting middle pair, and it's absolutely HORRIBLE if he's betting a pocket pair that isn't an overpair to your queens.

Again, the odds or someone having AQ or KQ are reduced given that there was no pre-flop raise. The odds of your hand being second-best are slim.

QJo is a top-pair hand. You play it in un-raised pots because that decreases the likelihood that you are dominated.

Ed Miller would bitch-slap you if he saw this post.

[TheLance]

Well, Consider me bitch slapped.

Thanks for your responses, especially to those of you that have been responding to all of my posts lately. (Shillx, Entity, etc)

I knew my choices here were to fold or raise, and I understand why calling this would be wrong, but I'm still hung up on the small pot. (I'm not arguing against you folks, I'm honsetly just trying to understand).

For those of you familiar with SSH, check out the top of page 118, The example of top pair with an overcard. I would hold this hand higher than my example, and Ed labels it 'marginal' because of the draws against it. (and, of course, we are to fold 'marginal' hands in small pots, lest we be slapped by Ed...)

Combined with the fact that I was bet into, with 5 players still in it, I still see this as a good fold?
(If the pot were bigger, say 10SBs, I think I would have raised it).

Again, I'm not saying you're all wrong (in fact, I realize how unlikely that is...), but I'm still trying to understand.

Thanks again for your continued thoughts...

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, Consider me bitch slapped.

Thanks for your responses, especially to those of you that have been responding to all of my posts lately. (Shillx, Entity, etc)

I knew my choices here were to fold or raise, and I understand why calling this would be wrong, but I'm still hung up on the small pot. (I'm not arguing against you folks, I'm honsetly just trying to understand).

For those of you familiar with SSH, check out the top of page 118, The example of top pair with an overcard. I would hold this hand higher than my example, and Ed labels it 'marginal' because of the draws against it. (and, of course, we are to fold 'marginal' hands in small pots, lest we be slapped by Ed...)

Combined with the fact that I was bet into, with 5 players still in it, I still see this as a good fold?
(If the pot were bigger, say 10SBs, I think I would have raised it).

Again, I'm not saying you're all wrong (in fact, I realize how unlikely that is...), but I'm still trying to understand.

Thanks again for your continued thoughts...

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have that hand on me, but from memory, I can say that your hand really isn't as vulnerable as you're making it out to be. You've got top pair and a backdoor straight on a twotone, two-straight board. There are lots of cards that can come that can change the dynamic of how you feel about your hand, but there's no way you can just fold this flop.

I'll go grab my copy of SSH in a bit and elucidate the differences if nobody else does.

Rob