On Holidays, Family, and Church

[New001]

See, I don't understand this at all, and I bet it's a big reason of why I am not religious at all. Whenever I end up raising a child, I would be happy if he (or she) decided for himself what he should believe. It would exhibit to me a higher level of thinking than just "My daddy did this so I will too."

To the OP, I think it's fine that you aren't going along. I probably wouldn't either, because it would make me incredibly uncomfortable, and I think it's selfish for them to pressure you to come along with them. Maybe offer to spend some time with them elsewhere? A nice dinner, or a movie, or something? That way, you're still spending time with your family, but it's not in a religious setting.

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It would exhibit to me a higher level of thinking than just "My daddy did this so I will too."


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To what is extent is a son wishing to emulate his father a lesser level of thinking?

[New001]

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It would exhibit to me a higher level of thinking than just "My daddy did this so I will too."


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To what is extent is a son wishing to emulate his father a lesser level of thinking?

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You don't think that coming to your own conclusion about the world isn't a little more advanced than doing what your father does because your father does it?

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You don't think that coming to your own conclusion about the world isn't a little more advanced than doing what your father does because your father does it?

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Becoming one's own man is a process that does not automatically imply the abandonment of fatherly emulation. If a son who admires his Dad so much that he wishes to emulate his father to whatever extent (a desire amongst many fathers I'm sure), this does not automatically imply that the son has stagnated intellectually.

[New001]

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You don't think that coming to your own conclusion about the world isn't a little more advanced than doing what your father does because your father does it?

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Becoming one's own man is a process that does not automatically imply the abandonment of fatherly emulation. If a son who admires his Dad so much that he wishes to emulate his father to whatever extent (a desire amongst many fathers I'm sure), this does not automatically imply that the son has stagnated intellectually.

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If I wanted to become a musician (my father's occupation as I grew up), then I can. If I wanted to be Buddhist (his religion), I can. Either of those decisions are going to be made based on what I think is best for me and my life, or my family, or my future, not because it's what my father did.

And what if I do decide to emulate my father? Good for me. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying that I would hope any son I raise will look at other options and decide for himself what's best.

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I'm just saying that I would hope any son I raise will look at other options and decide for himself what's best.

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And my question was, that upon your son's assessment of his options in life, and one option (yours) being favored, perhaps heavily, per his admiration of you, to what extent does this demonstrate a lesser level of thinking?

And I don't think it is debatable that a father's desire for a son's emulation on at least several levels does in fact exist (even if you don't feel as though that is in your future) hence the feeling of failure I suppose I would feel upon my son's rejection of my beliefs.

[New001]

Do you not see a difference between "Following the same religion as your father because he's your father" and "Choosing the same religion as your father because it makes more sense to you than your other options?" The latter I support entirely, the former seems lazy.

My original statement was intended to be 100% about religion, even if it does apply in other situations.

[imported_luckyme]

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And my question was, that upon your son's assessment of his options in life, and one option (yours) being favored, perhaps heavily, per his admiration of you, to what extent does this demonstrate a lesser level of thinking?

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I'd be mightily disappointed as a father if a grown child of mine allowed any decision to be weighed with "his admiration of me". I want to raise independant thinking adults, not father worshippers/pleasers. I hope I have set an example of being honest, trustworthy, reasonable, fair, etc ( not without slippage ) and those attributes are attributes they have, and when choices arise I hope those attributes lead to good ones. Tossing in "admiration for dad" should have moved way,way out of the picture by the time he's an adult or I will have failed.

On the OP's initial question - being upfront is the main issue. I conducted an atheist funeral a couple years ago for a mostly religious audience, including the childs pastor. The pastor was one of the first, of many, to come up and comment on how well it went. In the situation the OP is in, it may not work as well because the 'upfront' will only be with his family and not the congregation, some of who may be uncomfortable with a atheistic approach to the service. I'd bow out to avoid making what should be a pleasant experience a bit less so for others. If the family doesn't understand, this will be the least of your troubles.

luckyme

[Lestat]

Instead of failure, you should feel pride that you have raised a son who is his own man.

And if he winds up an atheist, you should also take solace that he probably turned out a little smarter than his dad. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

(sorry, couldn't resist).

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Whenever I end up raising a child, I would be happy if he (or she) decided for himself what he should believe.

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I beg to differ. You would be very upset if your son came to believe that murder, rape, and theft were A-OK.

From the get-go, a value/belief system will be imparted by you, whether you like it or not, and since I suspect that you believe murder, rape, and theft to be wrong, you will be quite pleased when your son comes to the same conclusions as an independent thinking man (if you succeeded as a father, that is).

Hence, this has nothing to do with why you are not religious.