Misplayed every street? what do you do? tough spot with KQ

[TimM]

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I think given the PF raise, the flop bet is fine.

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I don't like it. After watching you play for a while I think you definitely need to find some spots to check after raising pre-flop, and this is a good place to start.

[Dominic]

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this hand is a textbook example of how preflop mistakes compound themslves extremely rapidly.

Barron

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please explain...what preflop mistake? Should he not have raised?

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OOP w/ offsuit paint is not worth the building of a pot with a hand that features a large amount of reverse implied odds. even if 1 or 2 hands fold you're still OOP and putting in an EXTRA 1.25bb (pf raise+flop continuation bet) when you'll be the one paying off if you hit vs. completing and evaluating on the flop.

this is an instanc eof pot control where if it is +ev to raise, its very very slightly +ev.

if it isn't +ev, its likely quite costly.

Barron

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I didn't think it was correct to raise here with KQos and that many limpers, but thank you for explaining in a clear, concise manner WHY it wasn't correct.

And thanks for posting, D...your hand disections are always worth reading and I always seem to learn something new.

[Mackie]

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Check the flop, call 1 back to you, fold for 2.

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And call, not raise pre-flop. I see no other way to play this hand that makes any sense.

[veganmav]

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Check the flop, call 1 back to you, fold for 2.

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And call, not raise pre-flop. I see no other way to play this hand that makes any sense.

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I don't see the action on the third bet as obvious either way,calling and folding have good arguments for both IMHO.

[inspectorgadget]

I'd raise KQ with any amt of limpers from any position, especially the button.

[inspectorgadget]

This is just one of THOSE kinds of situations man... sometimes i'd raise that KQ there but a lot of the time i'd just call, it depends on who it is i'm playing, if the BB is tight and I thought he'd fold i'd raise with the hope that the poster might fold as well. However, you know that UTG is playing with a lot of hands so it's important to know how aggressive he is post flop (is the .7 his aggf?)

Assuming his aggression factor is a mere .7 i'm betting out on the flop because of my PFR... however, when you're screwed you're screwed, and you were, I think most of the time you are going to call his raise to peel one off, but if he almost never raises w/o at least a set or something you can safely fold... the other guys raise you had to call as but I can understand why it pissed you off... Actualy, I kind of wonder if it's +ev to call too because you're probably more behind than originally thought.

I dunno man, how'd the hand turn out just curious. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[veganmav]

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I dunno man, how'd the hand turn out just curious. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I'll post results in a little while, I just wanted some more discussion on the final flop bet first. I have talked to a lot of people, and I have like 5 votes for the call and about 5 votes against it.

[shmahappens]

(I think you played the hand poorly. So poorly in fact that I thought maybe you were trolling. Sorry.) Regular posters have the right to play hands badly too...

(Anyways, Preflop you should call. You have a mediocre hand for the situation considering your position and the number of players in the pot.) It's pretty +EV to raise, not debateable.

(Postflop, you totally whiffed yet decided to bluff into multiple players. You are better off checking and hoping for a free card or maybe taking one off for a small bet.) You play limit and you check the flop after raising pf?

(Given the situation you found yourself in, you must call the 3 bet. You're really hoping to pick up a straight draw. At least then you could make a nut hand on a miracle runner-runner draw. But you're stuck in the hand if you catch a pair or a flush draw also. ) Call the threebet.

[DcifrThs]

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I dunno man, how'd the hand turn out just curious. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I'll post results in a little while, I just wanted some more discussion on the final flop bet first. I have talked to a lot of people, and I have like 5 votes for the call and about 5 votes against it.

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given you built a pot the flop bet is fine.

results?

Barron

[DcifrThs]

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(Anyways, Preflop you should call. You have a mediocre hand for the situation considering your position and the number of players in the pot.) It's pretty +EV to raise, not debateable.

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well ive stated reasons for combleting the sb...so if its so clear EV to raise this from the sb lets hear why.

Barron