The results of the thread?

[sourwhiskystrait]

In reviewing the thread, and the archives, it appears that IrishHand, brad,and Chris Alger believe that the USA is a terrorist nation. Andy Fox isn't sure. Several posters outright reject the idea as outrageous.

[IrishHand]

You must not be able to read. There were a number of people who agreed that the US fell under a number of definitions of terrorism. Of course - that doesn't matter. What's of interest here is facts, opinions and intelligent discussion - none of which you seem interested in contributing.

Love,
Irish

[Glenn]

Good post Irish.

[brad]

im not killing women and children no matter what. ill take on the jackboots first.

[sourwhiskystrait]

I've been nice to you. I haven't made any personal attacks against you. Your above post does just that. Now the gloves come off.

For an officer of US forces to suggest that the USA is a terrorist nation is ludicrous. Admiral Poindexter's new department will certainly be forwarded your unpatriotic crap. Your identity will not be kept secret from either them, nor the ONI.

You are a disgrace to the uniform and should be forced out of the service.

[Clarkmeister]

Didn't seem like a personal attack to me. More like an accurate observation.

Of course he made accurate observations in the other thread as well. Some people prefer to live in ignorance of the truth. Note that none of us who are willing to admit the US engages in terroristic activities think the US is an "evil" nation. In fact, I rather suspect most of us would think that many of those actions were necessary. But that doesn't change the fact that the US undertook those activities and that those activities by the US's own definition were terrorist in nature.

What frightens me isn't the ones in the military who are willing to be honest about their country's past actions. Its the ones who think that silencing dissenting voices is reasonable. Those are the unamerican ones, not those who would bring change to immoral policy.

[brad]

so opposition to latin american death squads is unamerican?

[rounder]

[brad]

it is not only encouraged but it is his duty as an officer to disobey an illegal order, under the code of military justice.

for enlisted men it is only lip service but officers can face consequences if they obey an illegal order.

[IrishHand]

Having military people put forth that the USA is a terrorist nation is unacceptable.
The modern military is actually quite fond of officers who are capable of rational and independant thought, so long as it takes place within the framework of the military establishment. My godfather is a retired Army general - volunteered to serve as a Green Beret in Vietnam. He and I have had many thought-provoking discussions about the role of US politics, as I've had with probably hundreds of other officers. Really, all we ever talk about is women and politics. The point is that military people are very similar to most civilians in their choices of conversation - the only difference is that we've decided to devote a portion of our lives to defending you and your way of life. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Would he refuse to take action when ordered to do so?
As brad alluded to, an Officer is responsible for his decisions and actions. I have always and will continue to give unconditional obediece to all legal orders from a superior. I am charged with upholding both the constitution and the laws of our country. In this, I have a bit of an advantage over many of my fellow officers by virtue of my legal training. So saying, I've never refused an order so far in my career, and I have no intention of doing so.

Would he work in counter-espionage to support the people that he feels are victims of US terrorism?
Get real. I am an American - I love this country. That should be pretty clear by my career choice. Also, unlike most others who don't share the freedom of movement that I always have (I am a citizen of more than just this fair country), I live here by choice. Do I have problems with many American policies that clearly fall within the definitional gambit of "terrorism"? Certainly. I think any rational, intelligent person should - and would if they were aware of the pertinent information. Would I bomb a village in a foreign country even though I suspected it was purely civilian? Absolutely. Would I feel badly and question the motives of the "powers that be" when it was revealed after the fact that it was done purely to influence that nation's political situation? Absolutely.

I have to agree with SourWhiskey here.
That's a mistake, but not your first.

I believe that this guy should not be in uniform.
I'm not. I'm wearing a t-shirt, sweat pants and sweat shirt as I enjoy the weekend.

However, I believe that the ONI should be the judge of that.
I'm assuming that refers to the Office of Naval Intelligence. I hate to spread some reality on your world, but Naval Intelligence refers to gathering information to be used in the conduct of Naval Operations. The FBI is the organization tasked with giving security clearance to personnel in sensitive positions. However, I'm sure you'll be overjoyed to learn that I just recently got my security clearance back from them.

You might be surprised to learn this, but it's possible for a person to both be a critical thinker and a faithful member of our nation's military. Most of the officers I know who actually think about the world (some just want a salary to fund beer and women) share many of my views - although they do tend to have a bigger Republican slant. They also share my goal of making this country a better place, and aspiring to a time when they will be in a position to make positive changes.

I think this country is better than others because of the people in it. I don't think we need to engage in some of the underhanded and demeaning activities we have engaged in in the past and continue to engage in. I would love to think the day will come when our government is open and honest about it's policies and the reasons for them, but of course that's a dream. As it is, I just hope we move towards that rather than away...

Irish