Another Disaster

[Kevin J]

30-60

A pro who played well raised from early position. But it was obvious he was also on tilt due to 3 REAL nasty beats he just took. It was folded to me in the sb and I 3-bet with AKo. The bb folded and the pro called.

The flop came J93r. I checked, he bet, I check/raised, he called.

The turn was a 7. I bet, he called.

The river paired the J.

I don't bet or bluff any more just for the sake of betting or bluffing or cuz it's the only way to win. I need to feel there is some reason to bet. In other words, if bluffing isn't profitable... I stop.. I didn't think that another bet would be profitable. If he had AQ etc., I was hoping to win a showdown, but I didn't think he'd call. If he had anything else, I didn't think he was folding. If anything, I thought the paired jack made it more likely that he'd call with a pair.

I checked. He thought about betting but also checked. I lost to pocket sixes.

Did I play this too aggressively? I thought I played it tough. At least well enough to where I should've won it. But I guess my opponent played it better. At least he played it better than me. What do you guys think?

[Vehn]

I think when he calls the turn you're screwed and he'll call the river unless its an A K or Q. It wasn't. You're screwed. Save the bet.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi Kevin: You wrote: "I don't bet or bluff any more just for the sake of betting or bluffing or cuz it's the only way to win. I need to feel there is some reason to bet. In other words, if bluffing isn't profitable... I stop.." [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] Well, actually you are bluffing alot in this hand and the first one you posted. You have NOTHING but 2 overcards in both cases and yet proceed to bet, raise, check/raise, call 3 bets, etc. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img] I dunno....but that is what I call bluffing. I think you overplayed both hands vs. opponents you perceived to be weak. Unfortunatly, sometimes these guys actually have a hand, ya know? Is this typical of your style or were these isolated incidents.? LGPG, Babe [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

[bernie]

you represented a better hand the whole way, then gave up on it.

BUT, if your read was right, and you didnt think he'd fold, you saved a bet on the end. he very well couldve called if you bet.

b

[bernie]

it's not just bluffing for the sake of bluffing. it's who youre bluffing against. and picking spots. in the other hand, your bluffing into calling station types. guy calling with 22, wasnt it? you only need one CS out of the group involved in the hand to adjust your bluff frequency a little and tighten it up.

i think vehn also had a good point. once the guy sees the river after calling the turn, you may as well save the bet on the end.

b

[Kevin J]

Is this typical of your style or were these isolated incidents.?

Definitely isolated incidents, but like I said, I'm looking for leaks. Each hand I play I take on its own merit and of course I don't jam overcards like this regularily. But I think it's important to note that in both cases, I thought it possible I had the best hand. As it turns out, I was wrong but not by much in either case. In this hand, folding AQ would've been incorrect. And I thought if I could get the sb to fold, my chances improve against a lone opponent with pair of sixes or a flush draw. I agree playing Ace/big like this on a regular basis is a big leak. I was just curious if it had merit here. Thanks PokerBabe.

[J.A.Sucker]

It is MUCH easier for a good player to call the river than it is to call the turn. Our man's not gonna win the pot unless he hits his hand. Checking the river and praying the pro has AQ seems like a reasonable plan to me.

[J.A.Sucker]

What hands are you gonna 3 bet with from the SB against a pro who raises in EP? I'd say QQ or better, AK, and possibly AQs. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. He also knows this, since he is a pro after all.

Once the flop comes J - hi without another broadway card, he has to call you down. If you have a bigger pair than he does, so be it. Ironically, if you would have called preflop and check raised/ bet out turn, then you would likely win the hand there. This doesn't make calling the right play, since you would like the hand headsup, but just food for thought, because I'm Just Another Sucker.

[Ulysses]

If I'm going to bluff here, I'll usually check-call the flop then check-raise the turn. I'll only try this against an opponent who I know can lay down a hand.

The way this hand went down, once he calls the turn bet, you probably have to hit your pair to win. There's a chance he might lay down to a Queen on the river, but that's definitely not definite.

The river check is good, since he'll call w/ any pair at this point. I'm about to post a hand (3-betting live 30 w/ 88) that has some similarities to this one. Check it out.