So I pump my flush draw, and it hits on the turn...

#1 09-05-2005, 04:23 AM

Quick reads... ridiculously loose table with about 6 people seeing every flop and almost no PFRs. That's all I knew so far.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 (poster) checks, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button folds, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (14.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (18.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

I usually fold AXs lower than ATs up front, but here, the table was simply too terrible and I couldn't resist it. It certainly paid off here. My question is how to tackle the turn when my draw hit.

Here's what I was thinking... if I check and it gets checked around, I'd lose out on 3BBs. I'd absolutely hate that result! And since MP3 loves his hand so much, there's a good chance he'd still raise me on the turn, allowing me to throw in a 3rd bet. Obviously this failed since the flush card scared him.

Was this an easy check-raise situation?

#2 09-05-2005, 04:31 AM

Personally, I don't think so. The pot is already large, no need to get tricky and try and squeeze a few bets out of them. That third heart is scary if they don't have a flush, and it can easily be checked around.

Without an aggro player here, there's no need to go for a check-raise. Heck, even with an aggro player, bet out and hope they three-bet. Either way, they want to call, let them call. I say nice hand. Also, on the table you describe, I think A8s is fine to play preflop.

#3 09-05-2005, 04:32 AM

I'd probably go for the check raise, but in this case the straight bet is probably smarter, because it doesn't really tell him anything else about your hand. CR might scare off some river customers.

Matt Jenko · #4 09-05-2005, 04:45 AM

Although MP3 capped here, the presence of so many others in the hand means that everyone who doesn't have the flush will be scared of a flush. As you say, having it checked through would be terrible and although the chances of that might not be that high here, bet and hope for the chance to 3bet in this monster would be my policy.

nh btw [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

lautzutao · #5 09-05-2005, 04:46 AM

capping the flop...?

Matt Jenko · #6 09-05-2005, 04:49 AM

our hero didn't cap the flop, mp3 did. I would be more than happy for a 4 way cap on the flop here though as our hero has an absolute monster of a hand which will win far more than 25% of the time here.

invictus33 · #7 09-05-2005, 05:15 AM

The way these guys are betting I think they're in it until the river either way. Hit them with the c/r while you've got someone who just capped and is going to bet out and two cold calling fools. I can't think of a spot where you'd have a better chance of a successful c/r. Hell, I'd try it again on the river if I really thought they'd go for it again.

aK13 · #8 09-05-2005, 05:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
capping the flop...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero should be willing to get this capped in this spot every time. This is a very very crucial concept that you need to understand. Think about it for a bit...if you don't know why, I'm sure I (or other posters) will explain.

I like trying to bet/3bet here, and also since I've been missing some of my flush check/raises lately against 4 players.

Fryguy · #9 09-05-2005, 04:35 PM

I don't like c/r this turn. You'll most likely blow away MP1, so in all likelihood this is worth 1 extra bet IF it's successful. You're basically risking 2-3 bets to win 1. Not to mention you led the flop. Slowing down here should send alarms up in every poor players heads. Just continue to bet for value, as most of the field will probably call on both turn and river, for 6 bets. If you check/raise, you lose MP1, and you lose not only his 1 bet on fourth, but his 1 bet on 5th too. So this is almost breakeven check-raising versus leading, maybe +/- 1 bet. Not worth the risk of potentially losing 3 bets in my opinion.

Guthrie · #10 09-05-2005, 04:45 PM

I bet the turn and hope somebody raises.