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  #1  
Old 12-12-2005, 12:50 AM
PFrese PFrese is offline
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Default Am I a donkey?

Right now, I feel like a giant donkey. I was solidly in 2nd or 3rd in a stars 180 with about 14000 in chips. I pick up QQ in early position. I raised it 3x the blind (600) I get reraised by a LP player with a stack just under mine. He makes it 3600 to go.

I thought about calling and pushing to any undercard flop. But instead I reraised to 7500. He pushes and i insta call.

Giant pot - He of course flips over AA and when and Ace hits the flop I am dead.

In retrospect, I think this was an obvious, obvious, obvious lay down, but I just wanted to check and see if anyone else would have donkeyed it up like this? Feel free to tell me to call a whambulance.... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Ugg. I was in awesome shape to make the FT and I @(*#&@(* blew it!!
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2005, 12:56 AM
DONTUSETHIS DONTUSETHIS is offline
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

This is just one of those kinda hands. I would not suspect aces with such a large reraise. Most players with aces will raise 2 or 3 times your raise. Bad luck
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2005, 04:23 AM
bruce bruce is offline
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

You have along way to the final table. How many players were left?

When you're reraised by a sane opponenet let's assume his range is JJ to AA and AK. We might be able to add AQ and 99
and TT with some players. If his range is wide you'll win
slightly more than half the time. If he has a tighter range you're ahead of JJ, if he plays that to begin with, dead against Kings and Aces, and off the races against big
slick. I think I can make a strong case for folding although I can't remember the last time I did and everytime
I called I was staring at Aces and Kings.

Bruce
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2005, 04:25 AM
bruce bruce is offline
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

I think too many players put their opponents on a hand by the size of a raise or reraise. I think this is a big leak.
Good players mix their raises.

Bruce
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:17 AM
PFrese PFrese is offline
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

[ QUOTE ]
You have along way to the final table. How many players were left?

[/ QUOTE ]

There were 31 left. And aside from this hand, I was very much controlling my table and playing good poker. That is why I said I felt like I was in good shape to make the FT.

[ QUOTE ]
I think I can make a strong case for folding although I can't remember the last time I did and everytime
I called I was staring at Aces and Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it is good to know I was not alone in not laying down. The thing that drives me nuts about this hand is that I put him on three hands - AK, AA or KK. And, my first instinct was just to call him reraise of 3K and then fold if an A or a K hit the flop. Had I done this, I would still have been in good shape. But, nooooo I decided to hee haw is up and say "well, maybe I can push him off big slick" Ugg. Got to learn to listen to the voices in my head! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Oh well, thanks for the therapy session! And for the advice.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

Generally, when you have a big pair and someone has a bigger pair, you're going to lose a lot of chips.

However, I'm not sure of the value of an open raise 3x big blind with QQ. It's not enough to gain any information about a following raise (if you'd bet 1200 and then you see a massive reraise from LP, I guess you're more likely to fold, call or otherwise escape) and it's not enough to stop all manner of hands from calling and flopping something nice when, again, you've got no information.
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:14 AM
betgo betgo is offline
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

Why the minireraise? You are pot committed with any reraise, so why not just push? You certainly don't mind id villain folds.

Maybe the big raise was a good play by villain. He figured you had a good hand raising in early position. The big raise doesn't look like a big pair. Once hero reraises he is in for all his chips. Even if he flat calls the big reraise, there is a good chance he will bust out.

I think you would be a donk if you didn't go bust on this hand. You can't just fold QQ to a reraise. Early in a major tournament, you could fold QQ. Maybe, you could fold it based on the action, like two players allin. Unless you had a really good read, I think you go broke here.

These 180 SNG are more like tournaments than multitable SNGs. A lot of times, you will have a big stack and not cash.
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2005, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

"Going all in with QQ is the same as going in with 27" in certain situations. What type of player is LP? If he's super tight, or even TAG, do you want to gamble with your QQ when you have chips in huge proportion to the blinds? What hands could he possibly have? AK, KK, AA, maybe AQ or JJ. Half of those hands don't seem like fun to me.

Even if you fold to his re-raise, you still have ~7000 to 200 BB. If you just call and get a bad feeling after the flop, you have even more chips to rebuild with. Plenty of time to re-build your stack, if you keep your cool in both scenarios.

Oh yeah, also, how have you been doing at this table? Winning small pots here and there? Think you can withstand a big fold, or do you need to gamble to stay in this?

You weren't a "donkey" here by any means. It happens. But, if you are in a great situation, do you really want to gamble with it on one hand? Or would you rather wait and outstrategize, pick on small stacks, get your money in there with better fold equity, etc. Being "committed" because you got re-raised or you have a good enough hand or this is an internet tourney is not a good enough reason to play QQ for all your chips. Still, you're not a donkey. This is a common error by many, many good players.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2005, 01:20 PM
betgo betgo is offline
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

You need a really good read to fold QQ to a reraise. The big reraise could easily be AQ or JJ or something trying to pick up the pot, and villain will fold to a push.

You definately can't fold QQ to a reraise in a higher buyin tournament against good players. If you do, you will get reraised every time.

You also can't fold QQ to a reraise against fishy players, because who knows what they are reraising with.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2005, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Am I a donkey?

[ QUOTE ]
"Going all in with QQ is the same as going in with 27" in certain situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm...okay
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