($6) - Raised Min PF & Flopped 3rd NF in the SB - Bad move to check?

DawnToDusk · #1 09-15-2005, 10:51 PM

So I don't know what I am thinking here anymore when I flop a good hand against a field where someone raised the min. Please help! Its killing me! You know I check my good hands to them in hopes that they will bet, but when I see them bet the minimum on the flop after raising the min on the flop, I want to barf all over myself. Against these players should I just come out betting?

Look at this hand also. Bad line to take? Should I of come out betting instead of checking to the person who raised the min PF? More so for protection as well in my hand?

And finally. Should I really treat a PF raise of the min as just a pot sweetener and just come out betting? Im just killing myself checking to these peeps when I flop a good hand and it seems like I am giving way to many freecards?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

MP1 (t1725)
MP2 (t535)
MP3 (t110)
CO (t565)
Button (t635)
SB (t990)
Hero (t1645)
UTG (t675)
UTG+1 (t1120)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 raises to t60, MP2 calls t60, 4 folds, Hero calls t30, UTG calls t30.

Flop: (t255) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets t30, MP2 calls t30, Hero raises to t300, UTG raises all in for t615 MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls t315.

Turn: (t930) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t930) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t930

Thanks for your help. I will get back to this thread after I change shirts. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

bluefeet · #2 09-15-2005, 10:58 PM

musta been something you ate...cuz you got your+their chips in after floppin the 3rd best flush.

-nh

turn card? eh...happens.

ps. for the record, i raise a little less on the flop. i can live with a 4flush ruining my plans. i'm not hating a caller of...say, t150 here - pushing the turn (this turn? well, come on...only 1 card in the deck that makes you puke on yourself).

DawnToDusk · #3 09-15-2005, 11:06 PM

LOL. And let me say it made me puke. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But what about these min raises preflop? The blinds were 15/30, so the donk made it 60 to go. Should I of just came out betting here?

I really checked here in the SB in hopes to get the donk to bet at the pot. He did, and then I raised him. But I really barfed because he just bet the min on the flop. It is these situations that someone raises the min PF and I don't know what to do on the flop? I am just leaning to coming straight out and betting into people now. I think checking in a situation like this is a -EV play. The chance of it being checked around seems to high to me and on a board like this, that is a disaster.

Agree?

bluefeet · #4 09-15-2005, 11:31 PM

IMHO...

to answer your first question: i do know you see a lot more min-raising at the lower levels. so much so, that i'm not adjusting my calling/raising standards PF as a result. just WAY to much of that stuff to let it freeze you.

regarding your post-flop move: when you flop a hand this strong, you want whatever line will likely get him into the pot easier/stronger. put yourself in his shoes. based on the texture of the flop, will a lead tend to slow him down on a scarey board? or in the case of a well disguised hand (2-pair, rainbow flop, ace on board...for example), will a weak lead encourage him to come back strong representing his strength? on a 3flush...either might do the trick. a weak "give me the turn please" lead, might get him to hit it hard, chasing out the draws. if the rank of the flop isn't likely to hit a PFr's hand, he might not. countless situations of course, more than i care to (or am qualified to!) get into. but get in the habit of comparing the texture of the flop to his PF range...anticipating his reaction in either line you choose.

as i've done before, i suggest you pick up Harrington on Hold'em Vol 1 (HOH1). a majority of this book covers this very important topic (PF+flop).

DawnToDusk · #5 09-16-2005, 01:02 AM

I've got Volumes I and II good friend. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I just finished reading them through for the first time about 4 days ago. I plan on starting to read them through again come Monday. Me ol' brain needs a break for a lil. But great books indeed.

I kind of get the feeling that these books are geared towards tourneys that have higher buy-ins. I see some discussion about moves and actions that are happeneing in my low stakes STT and MTT tourneys, yet I am still kind of in the dark in some situations. For example these min raise situations. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Does anyone feel the same applies to the low stakes STT and MTT not being explained to handle as much as one might like? Or am I just a total dorko and need to start reading these books tomarrow? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]