Good Push Situations?

mlee · #1 03-04-2005, 06:08 AM

I'm still new to MTTs and was wondering if these were good situations to push in. I had just moved to the table and don't have too good a read. Table seemed standard without overly aggressive players. I would appreciate your comments.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t4115)
UTG (t3260)
UTG+1 (t7095)
MP1 (t7360)
MP2 (t4325)
MP3 (t4985)
CO (t9015)
Button (t2685)
SB (t12440)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t600, 2 folds, MP3 calls t600, 1 fold, Button raises to t2685, 1 fold, Hero raises to t4115, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds.

Second hand came up after I lost the first hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t1330)
Button (t2760)
SB (t6095)
BB (t7360)
UTG (t4825)
UTG+1 (t5685)
MP1 (t9015)
MP2 (t6270)
MP3 (t11940)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t500, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1330, 3 folds, MP2 calls t830.

whiskeytown · #2 03-04-2005, 06:17 AM

in both cases you called a raise/reraise with what I think could be an inferior hand. (maybe not to a raise the first time, but the raise and reraise and at BEST you're 50/50) -

what's wrong with just calling and seeing if the flop hurts/improves your hand? - in the first situation I don't think you're short stacked enough to do a reraise all in with Q's - in the second spot, you are short stacked enough, but it's probably still not a smart move if you aren't the initial raiser -

a large part of going all in or pushing is being the first one and having position to do it -
RB

mlee · #3 03-04-2005, 06:27 AM

Thank you, I appreciate the input. If I had AA in the first situation, would that still be a call versus a reraise or all in?

JaBlue · #4 03-04-2005, 07:06 AM

1st push: good.

2nd: Very bad push. He has to call you with anything. The best case scenario is a coinflip or AQ. You're just too often dominated in this hand to make this push good. However, if everyone folded to you and you open-pushed, it would be fine. You still have some time to find a better spot.

whiskeytown · #5 03-04-2005, 07:11 AM

you see, Jablue...here's my thoughts as I expressed above -

it's been popped and repopped. Now, at BEST, one of them has AK - and if you're lucky, the other one has an A or K and has reduced the outs -

I'm not super duper comfy pushing all in here unless I know the raiser and reraiser are overaggressive - but I can't tell that from the post - one raise, absolutely - a raise/reraise....well....I think he's beaten by AA/KK. Let's see if he tells us how he lost the hand. It's the reraise that makes me go hmmm...

and hell, he did get it heads up....so it partially worked - but the 2nd all in had a big hand, I'm guessing...or a 50/50 - RB

RB

JaBlue · #6 03-04-2005, 07:24 AM

WhiskeyTown: I think your hand range for the repopper is way too narrow. He has 2600. The bet is 600 to him. He should be pushing with a lot more hands here than just AA,KK, and AK. I would expect JJ, 1010, AK, AQ to push here and that's still kind of narrow. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 99, 88, or 77.

Mammux · #7 03-04-2005, 08:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 99, 88, or 77.

[/ QUOTE ]
An aggressive player could even make this move with suited connectors. Even if the blinds folded, this would be a very hard call for the original raiser, since there is another caller yet to act. Harrington describes this pretty well in HoH, I think he calls it the squeeze move or the sandwich effect.

-Magnus

pocketjacks · #8 03-04-2005, 11:38 AM

Could you please tell me the name of this book, and is it good? How does it compare to Sklansky's TPFAP?
What all does it cover?
Thank you.

mlee · #9 03-04-2005, 02:50 PM

I guess my thinking was push to get the other two out, is this a bad idea? If I just call do you think the other two would probably fold. He had A K o. K on turn, A on river.

tiger7210 · #10 03-04-2005, 04:01 PM

This is why I don't want to push the other 2 out. Flat calling behind may entice 1 or both of the 2 other players into the pot where you may get sucked out and lose your whole atck but you also give yourself a chance to win a nice sidepot and maybe even triple up here. At this point in the tourny its a chance I'm usually willing to take to get a big stack and try and get deep into the money. If you were already in the money and deeper into the tourny then I would reraise all in to try and isolate against the shorter stack. Just my opinion.