Limping with AA/KK in EP: Always, sometimes, never?

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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Limping with AA/KK in EP: Always, sometimes, never?


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Yes.

[Cased Heel]

Always raise with these hands. Always.

A minraise has benefits b/c it may get re-raised to which you can re-raise. You get the benefits of re-opening the betting to the BB yet you aren't betting too much to scare any fish away.

[Ghazban]

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A minraise has benefits b/c it may get re-raised to which you can re-raise. You get the benefits of re-opening the betting to the BB yet you aren't betting too much to scare any fish away.

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A minraise has the enormous downside of giving away information cheaply (aka huge reverse implied odds). Many of the largest pots I've won in SSNL games are where I've flopped a garbage two pair out of the blinds and busted somebody who minraised AA and couldn't lay it down.

[subzero]

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Many of the largest pots I've won in SSNL games are where I've flopped a garbage two pair out of the blinds and busted somebody who minraised AA and couldn't lay it down.

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This is always the problem with AA. Some people just can't let it go. If I limp with AA, I might be able to trap someone since I have added deception. But if I seven people see the flop, it's coordinated, and there's heavy betting action, I'm easily folding.

But since PT says AA is my top money winner, I'll continue to bet out most of the time and hope to get heads up with a big pair or AK.

[Cased Heel]

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A minraise has benefits b/c it may get re-raised to which you can re-raise. You get the benefits of re-opening the betting to the BB yet you aren't betting too much to scare any fish away.

[/ QUOTE ]

A minraise has the enormous downside of giving away information cheaply (aka huge reverse implied odds). Many of the largest pots I've won in SSNL games are where I've flopped a garbage two pair out of the blinds and busted somebody who minraised AA and couldn't lay it down.

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Lately, the tables I've been playing have been re-raising often PF. This is why I said it's OK to miniraise in EP, b/c someone with KQ suited or the likeness will likely re-raise b/c a miniraise from EP could mean any two paint cards. You aren't giving away much info. for cheap. Again, an EP miniraise could mean any two paint cards really, we are talking 6-max here right? Plus, lets not forget that often times 6-max really only consists of 4 or 5 players so a miniraise is not the end of the world against only 3 or 4 opponents.

[Ghazban]

If somebody will reraise a minraise, they probably would've raised themselves. So limp/reraising is better than minraising/re-reraising because a limp/reraise gives away no information if there is no raise while the minraise screws you if nobody reraises. Furthermore, some hands that might've raised had you limped might just call the minraise, putting you in a position where you could've reraised had you limped but can't since you minraised. The only conceivable advantage I can see to minraising/re-reraising over limp/reraising is that its much easier to get enough of your stack in to make any flop an easy push.

[amoeba]

I think minraise is the worst of the 3 options.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

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A minraise has benefits....

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NEVER NEVER NEVER minraise in EP pre-flop with AA/KK.

[amoeba]

you should really raise that flop.

[The Lobster]

If I'm UTG with KK or AA I almost always try to limp/raise it. Sometimes they do get cracked this way... anybody can flop a low 2 pair and crack those A's/K's but you'll also win monster hands that wouldn't otherwise be played. Last night I unsuccessfully tried to limp/raise AA but got 5 more limpers instead. This is exactly the situation I don't want to be in, but luckily the flop came down A J J. I flopped the second nuts and won a big hand against somebody who had a J. If I raise from UTG I maybe get one caller if I'm lucky (who doesn't get involved post-flop with a board like that) or I take down the blinds.

The only caveat is that you HAVE to be able to release them post-flop if you're going to play like this. I just don't think that an UTG raise with AA/KK is a good way to take advantage of the hand in the long run. If nobody else at the table is gonna raise it for you then they're unlikely to call your raise.