80/160 hand against J.A. Sucker

[mike l.]

"I'd venture that most live players call here but most online players 3 bet at comparable stakes."

i completely agree.

"when I play live I always get mindfucked because everyone seems to be calling big aces in the blinds."

exactly. i almost said something about this distinction but wasnt sure if it was the case online. thanks.

[mike l.]

"If you had a pp, you would 3 bet preflop."

my read is hero would flat call preflop with 66-22, maybe 77.

[Fianchetto]

Here are some of my thoughts on the hand:

The street I feel I messed up was the river, I really wish I had checkraised. I thought about it at the time, but I didn't want to feel like an idiot if it went "check, check".

When Sucker 3-bets the flop and checks the turn, it pretty much confirms he doesn't have a pair and he wanted a cheap river. Overcard hands/draws are the most likely candidates, so that ace either hit him, or it represents the perfect bluff card for him to fire on. Either way he is very likely to bet the river allowing me to checkraise.

Regarding preflop: I agree that 3-betting preflop is fine, and the standard play, but I don't think calling is bad either. It disguises the strength of my hand and since Sucker will likely autobet every flop, I plan on checkraising most flops.

Sucker's range here preflop is very wide. If I reraise he is alerted that I have something decent and 3 small bets preflop may be all I get out of him. I will also be out of position against a player who is definitely capable of testing me if he can narrow my hand range. i.e. I 3-bet preflop, lead, he raises me on a blank turn....not an easy decision for me holding an unimproved AQ.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But for PR reasons, I never made that play when playing live (keep in mind that I used to play in a realtively small cardroom where everyone knows everyone).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have qualms about checkraising, not only should you quit poker permanently, but you should seriously consider killing yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly either:

1.) Lack serious reading comprehension

or

2.) Think that "the big picture" refers to a movie screen.

Josh

[skp]

No qualms about checkraising in general.

But river checkraises in spots such as this where you are clearly sending a signal that you have just outplayed your opponent was one that I consciously avoided in live play in our small cardroom.

Our games were great: loose, lots of friendly chat, hardly anyone cussing at you or the dealers for bad beats etc. There were also huge pots (frequently over a grand in our 10-20 game). The last thing I wanted to do was get under a guy's skin for a measly 1 extra big bet by checkraising the river in a spot like this. It was counterproductive in that particular environment.

Checkraising when the board was K7397 and I held A7 is a different story. No one gets pissed off at that.

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
not to be rude (we all have to try and be on best behavior lately) but this looks like a yawner

[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, my first reaction is that the hand was played pretty poorly. PF is fine I guess (though I reraise here), but if I just flat called PF I'm definitely 4-betting the flop here. As the first 3 streets were played, the river bet blows HARD. Not nearly enough bets went in on this hand.

GoT

[flawless_victory]

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3 bet preflop and c/r the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is really all that needs to be said.

PS. this is the easiest river CR in the history.

[andyfox]

You should seriously consider the ramifications of killing the game.

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]
In general, I like the smoothcall preflop in this spot with a view to checkraising any flop other than those that you hit.

But I would change my flop plans here when it comes down 522.

When you checkraise that flop, Sucker should know you are prolly full of it. If you had a pp, you would 3 bet preflop. You prolly don't have a 5 or 2 particularly since you are stepping up to the 80 game from your usual 40 game. Your checkraise on the flop should look like Ax or a flush draw to sucker and he will play it accordingly.

Besides, when the flop comes JT3 and you checkraise, Sucker might fold a hand like 88 either then or on the turn. He ain't folding 88 (and probably not folding any two cards) when the flop is 522.

So, I would just call preflop and just checkcall the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks SKP, I was starting to think I must suck reading all the replies. I definitely mix up what I do with AQ in the BB vs a steal so I agree that the call isn't bad. I also agree that this isn't the type of flop to checkraise, although if you do checkraise you probably should cap his impending 3-bet.

You didn't mention your turn action so maybe I still suck. If I happen to just call preflop with AQ here, I would check-call the flop and donk any turn. This way we put in the same amount of bets and avoid giving a free card.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding preflop: I agree that 3-betting preflop is fine, and the standard play, but I don't think calling is bad either. It disguises the strength of my hand and since Sucker will likely autobet every flop, I plan on checkraising most flops.

Sucker's range here preflop is very wide. If I reraise he is alerted that I have something decent and 3 small bets preflop may be all I get out of him. I will also be out of position against a player who is definitely capable of testing me if he can narrow my hand range. i.e. I 3-bet preflop, lead, he raises me on a blank turn....not an easy decision for me holding an unimproved AQ.


[/ QUOTE ]

I find all this preflop discussion pretty interesting. I would understand the flop call more if this was a standard CO open raise but this was him raising his stinking post. However, in this situation the flat call and your thinking seems a bit weak tight. I think this is a time when you really need to 3 bet for metagame reasons in addition to just flat out value. You need to tell him not to fuuck with you and put the tough decision on him. Forget how you feel betting unimproved AQ on the turn and start thinking how HE will feel with 55 on a JK3 board.