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#21
12-09-2005, 01:20 AM
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Re: QQ flop in very large pot
{quote]Did you ready the thread?
[/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I did, and if my less-than-rosy take on the situation is different from the rest of the thread, so be it. It's a six handed pot on a draw heavy board and you are either WA/WB...and I really doubt you are WA, as big multiway pots almost always include at least one if not two A's. So IMO, you only have backdoor draws to a non-nut flush, a one card straight, a set, or a miracle FH/quads...furthermore, if the players are as willing to gamble as you indicate, your Q outs may be tainted by the presence of a KT or T9, so hitting your set may not be good enough. Oh, yeah, and you are in a pot with a bunch of fish who will almost certainly take any A to showdown, so I don't like the chances of getting a weak A to fold. IMO, you will have to improve a lot to win. If I held the queens, I would try to get to the turn as cheaply as possible, and I would expect to be folding the turn most of the time. You didn't hit your set on the flop, you probably don't have TP, and you will almost certainly need to hit runner/runner to make the best hand. There is a lot in the pot and it is sure to be a monster by the time it's over, so it isn't a bad spot in which to gamble, but it seems like everyone else is gambling, too, so there would appear to be further opportunities ahead when you may hold a more obvious advantage. Just my .02 cents, so take it for what it's worth. 
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#22
12-09-2005, 01:57 AM
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Re: QQ flop in very large pot
[ QUOTE ]
draw heavy board [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you are either WA/WB [/ QUOTE ] You are misusing the term WA/WB here. If he is ahead, there is almost no chance he is "way ahead." [ QUOTE ] you only have backdoor draws to a non-nut flush, a one card straight, a set, or a miracle FH/quads [/ QUOTE ] That's 5.5ish outs, according to Ed Miller. Even discounting for bigger spades and tainted set/straight outs, you still have to credit Justin with 4 outs. Calling 2SBs in this spot is not only proper, it's mandatory, barring a read that it will be capped behind him. [ QUOTE ] but it seems like everyone else is gambling, too, so there would appear to be further opportunities ahead when you may hold a more obvious advantage. [/ QUOTE ] I have no clue what this means.
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#26
12-09-2005, 06:01 PM
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Re: QQ flop in very large pot
[ QUOTE ]
Party 15/30, I followed someone on my buddy list to this game, and it turned out that all his fishy friends were there too. I have no read on the 3 bettor, I have reads on UTG1 and the BB that say they have nearly any two cards. There's a poster in the cutoff. UTG1 limps, I raise black QQ in MP. HJ calls, Poster calls, button 3bets, SB folds, everyone calls back to me and I cap, everyone calls. 6 to the flop for 24ish bets. Flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I? [/ QUOTE ] No one is folding. Everyone is coming along. You have around 3.5 outs. The pot is huge. Betting here would be foolishness. peace john nickle
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#27
12-09-2005, 06:07 PM
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Re: QQ flop in very large pot
[ QUOTE ]
bet. try to win big pots. [/ QUOTE ] Ive started adopting this philosophy. Not of betting when im hopelessly behind so that i can charge myself the most to draw to my few unclean outs, but of doing everything i can to win big pots. The other day, i was HU on the river in a 20BB pot, and i knew i was losing. So i took my cards, and JAMMED EM IN MY OPPONENTS EYEHOLE! I then stood up, and said in my best Jack Palance "Well boys, looks like this pot is mine" as my opponents eye-juice dripped all over the smooth green felt of the poker table. No one disagreed. peace john nickle
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