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  #1  
Old 10-09-2005, 01:48 PM
TemetNosce TemetNosce is offline
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Location: 2/4 @ Stars, Paradise, TGC
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Default Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

Paradise 2/4 (10 Handed)

Reads: UTG is a tight, thinking player, Button and SB will play any Ace, paint cards or pocket pair.

Preflop : Hero is UTG+1 with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, Hero reraises, 5 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls

Flop (13 SB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls

Turn (8.5 BB):T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero ???

Two questions:

1. With UTG not capping preflop, I feel confident that I am not looking at AA/KK here. My thinking here with raising with my two overcards is that I would like to chase out the Button and SB if they have pocket pairs and not give them the chance to nail a set on the turn (or river). I'd also like to drive out the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] if possible if someone holds it but it isn't a suited Ace. Is this correct or am I spewing?

2. If I raise the turn against this thinking player, am I spewing or is there enough of a chance he can laydown a hand like QQ/JJ?
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2005, 05:26 PM
Lunar Tweak Lunar Tweak is offline
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Location: Ft. Irwin, CA
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Default Re: Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

flop raise is OK, pot has become quite large, and luckly it got you heads up.

when UTG fires the turn, i don't see him laying down JJ or QQ, and maybe trying to 3 bet you w/ TT. but you have to call getting 8.5 to 1 to spike an A or K.

hope this helps.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2005, 05:38 PM
cold_cash cold_cash is offline
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Default Re: Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

What hands can the button have?

Once you decide that it should be simple math.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2005, 07:51 PM
Walker Walker is offline
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Default Re: Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

Disclaimer: I may be completely wrong

When UTG bets the flop, I think he has a pp (88-JJ)=20ways or two big suited diamonds (AdTd,AdJd,AdQd)=3ways. Most of the time I think we are behind. While we would like to fold out hands like JT,QT that have 6 live outs against us, we might also fold dominated Aces, and kings, and pp's which we really want to stick around and pad the pot for us while we're drawing. Raising is expensive, and we're likely not getting a free card so I just call.

*Note
If UTG the very aggressive type that would bet out here without a pair or AK (AK is unlikely), you should raise the flop for value and to make those behind you pay to draw. If they might fold a pp, then all the better. With this line (as you played it) I think I would just call the turn and fold the river UI.

If UTG might fire again with his overcards or flush draw, raising (with the intention of folding to a three bet(assuming he wouldn't three bet 88-JJ here) and then taking a free showdown UI would be sexy as hell and definitely worth considering.

Note: I've been playing mostly live lately, and I've never player paradise 2/4.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2005, 08:00 PM
cold_cash cold_cash is offline
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Default Re: Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

[ QUOTE ]
What hands can the button have?

Once you decide that it should be simple math.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean UTG. I think it's a call on the turn, but it's close.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2005, 08:02 PM
me454555 me454555 is offline
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Default Re: Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

Flop raise is spewing. You made the correct read on UTG as he likley has a PP that isn't AA or KK. The reason I dislike this raise so much is that you are behind and not buying any outs w/button or bb folding. Lets say they have a hand like QJ or T9 that has 6 outs against you. It doesn't make much of a difference if they fold b/c 1) You're not ahead and still have to hit your hand to win it and 2) Your outs will not make anyone else a better hand.

Given the reads that you are describing, their most likely hands are Ax, PPs, KQ, QJ, KJ, JTs maybe. If thats the range of hands they have, I think you'd rather have them stick around and pad the pot in case you hit your ace or king. They worst case scenerio is that they have a redraw gutshot against you and thats not so bad b/c you might be able to make them pay 2bb's for it.
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2005, 08:20 AM
TemetNosce TemetNosce is offline
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Default Re: Overcards with AK on the Flop & Turn

Thanks for the comments.

After I played the hand and thought about it, I felt the flop raise was incorrect for the reasons you stated, especially the leaving worse unpaired hands in to pad the pot in case I spiked an Ace or a King.
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