Is it possible to fold a flush on the river in a big pot?

robertsonjohn · #1 10-12-2005, 06:40 PM

I've only played one rotation - so far neither villain has done anything noteworthy.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, MP1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (19.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 31.50 BB

Fantam · #2 10-12-2005, 06:56 PM

I am not sure whether I could fold a flush in a big pot, but I suspect that might have been correct when CO capped the river.

UTG looks as though he also made a flush, which may or may not have been better than your flush.

However, it very much looks as though CO made a full house on the river.

CourtJester · #3 10-12-2005, 07:05 PM

no

grayhawk · #4 10-12-2005, 07:44 PM

It feels like you are in 3rd place here to UTG's better flush and CO's Queens full of jacks. With no reads, I would probably call the turn raise instead of 3 betting. With the huge pot on the river, I call down but expect to lose. I doubt you are good 10% of the time with 2 opponents.

ArturiusX · #5 10-12-2005, 08:05 PM

I really hate this flop bet.

robertsonjohn · #6 10-12-2005, 08:17 PM

I 3-bet the turn because I figured CO had the A of hearts and I wanted to charge his draw (at least that's what I thought he had until the river), while I figured it was at least 50-50 between me and UTG's likely made flush with the CO providing overlay. I wouldn't have 3-bet if the CO had folded to the raise.

Arturius, what's wrong with the flop bet? I've got a field of six and no PF raiser with a draw that's going to come in 35% of the time. What do you propose?

Paxosmotic · #7 10-12-2005, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really hate this flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
The reason we bet the flop is because no one showed any aggression preflop (so we can't count on an early position check-raise), and we're in a situation where (equity > (100/players)), so a bet is profitable.

For what it's worth, I fold to two cold on the river and inject an air bubble directly into my brain when they turn over two pair and trips respectively.

#8 10-12-2005, 08:34 PM

I think I'd just call the turn raise. The way UTG played he is likely to have a flush and according to the hearts visible, he probably has a higher flush. CO could have many hands on the turn. If he is very loose he could even have only an overcard or maybe a lonely heart [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].
But he is more likely to have 2 pair or maybe a set.
So on the river there's a great chance that you are beaten. And the way it went you had to pay 4 bets to see the showdown. That was bad luck [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].
How could you know that UTG would reraise? I mean if he really has even the nut flush, he should be very aware of someone calling to the river against massive betting and then waking up when the board pairs.
So i probably would have called those first two bets myself expecting UTG to only call the raise.
I would also call the cap then after having invested so much money already. Imagine the pain you'd feel if you folded a winner in this pot. Even if i knew that call was -EV i'd probably make it. Going on tilt is costly too.

grayhawk · #9 10-12-2005, 08:35 PM

RJ and Pax, I agree on the flop bet for the reasons stated. RJ, next time you post a hand like this one, don't post all of it. It would have been better to not know about the turn cap and the river play. I think the best place to stop would have been:

Turn: Hero bets, UTG Raises, CO calls, Hero?

This, to me, is probably the pivotal point in the hand.

tyler_cracker · #10 10-12-2005, 08:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: Hero bets, UTG Raises, CO calls, Hero?

This, to me, is probably the pivotal point in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an easy 3-bet, especially with CO in there. There are many hands that aren't Ax/Kx/Qx[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] that raise this turn.

If you didn't know about the river action, this is boring. With the river action, there's stuff to talk about.

FWIW, i am not good enough to fold this river.