How to compete with a maniac?

[Lin Sherman]

You folks are obviously more familiar with these Foxwood games than I am, so I can't argue with some of the points you made, especially about the general approach to playing those games. However, the advice I gave was intended to be specific to the question the OP asked, namely how to cope with a maniac in a 1-5 spread limit game. It wasn't meant to be a general treatise on how to beat every 1-5 Foxwoods game, and certainly not 5-10 or higher structured-limit games.

There are some specific points I'd like to address that one or both of you guys brought up.

(1) The idea that the ante justifies loosening up compared to a non-anted game is completely wrong when the game is already loose. In a loose game, even at 1-5, the extra $4 is a fly on an elephant's butt, especially as it all goes towards the rake anyway and shouldn't even be considered when figuring your pot odds. (I'm assuming these games are raked and not time-charged).

(2) As for raising with a drawing hand (CJC), this is almost always wrong unless either (a) you have a completely live ace, or (b) a raise will get you heads up against the idiot AND you have two overcards to the idiot's door card, or (c) a raise has a very good chance of buying a free card on fourth street. Otherwise raising on third with a drawing hand is usually a big -EV play. Raising on 4th, however, is often a different matter, because if you have made a four-flush and it's still live, you're almost always getting +EV to raise against any number of opponents, plus it may buy you a free card on fifth street.

(3) As for calling with weak drawing hands on third, this is often right, but not as often as most stud players think. These hands just don't get there that often, and when they do, they often don't hold up.

It's a peculiarity of stud-type games that as the number of players in the pot increases, your pot equity with most hands goes down even faster. That is, a hand that might have 25% pot equity in a 3-way pot might have only 10% equity in a 5-way pot. The problem tends to get worse on the later streets, especially for unimproved pairs AND, believe it or not, for baby straight and flush draws that haven't got there yet. The fact that a bunch of people are hanging around on the late streets when you have a little straight or flush draw usually means you are up against better draws, and in the long run, this means you're actually an overall dog.

(4) Playing with your balls [sic] is a good way to wind up in 1-3. It's okay to think at the table, really it is.

You guys may well be beating these games, but I'm pretty sure it's not because you're playing extra drawing hands in a RAISED pot (note emphasis). It's because you outread your opponents and therefore fold faster than your opponents when you're getting the worst of it.

Lin

[CJC]

Hello Again Lin,

To reply to your replies [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

1) The idea that the ante justifies loosening up compared to a non-anted game is completely wrong when the game is already loose.

In a very loose game I DO AGREE with you on this one. Actually I have thought about your comments on this matter quite a deal in the last hour. ( I have nothing else to do here at work right now [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] ) I do think we might 'differ' on our definitions of loosening up.

I will just say, that ON AVERAGE.. if one plays a 1-5 game with the 50 cent ante the same way he/she plays the 1-5 with no ante, that person WILL NOT BE A WINNER. Or at the very least, will not be maximizing his/her profits.

2) As for raising with a drawing hand (CJC), this is almost always wrong unless

I don't rember posting above anything about raising with a drawing hand. I do remember discussing RE-RAISING. Though there are several times when both are correct. ( particularly re-raising ) For example. If you know a loose opponent will raise with something like 456 and you hold 10JQ, if a re-raise will get you heads-up. Wouldn't you want to be? I would! Now in a really-loose game where heads-up opportunities are almost impossible, then I agree re-rasing with a holding such as this is futile/stupid. Although the original post implies a loose game with 1 maniac, it didn't refer to a MULTI-MANIAC table. ( such as the one really loose one I described in my 10-20 post from the other day )

3) As for calling with weak drawing hands on third, this is often right, but not as often as most stud players think

I don't disagree with you here at all..


4) Playing with your balls [sic] is a good way to wind up in 1-3. It's okay to think at the table, really it is


[img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]


Sincerly,

CJ