Flopped Boat vs River Push from a TAG

Kyriefurro · #1 12-09-2005, 01:02 PM

I've played about 70 hands against villain, he seems to be a good solid TAG.

0.50/1 NLHE 6-max (6 players) 

Stacks:
Hero - $96
Button - $88

Hero us UTG w/ 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Preflop: Hero calls, MP folds, CO calls, Button raises to $5 , SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls, CO folds

($12.50) Flop )2 players) : 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Button checks
 This was a dream flop for me. I checked with the intent to c/r all-in against villain's C/B. Guess villain didn't read the script [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] 

($12.50) Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero bets $8, Button calls

($28.50) River: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $20, Button raises to 75 (all-in) , Hero...........?

beavens · #2 12-09-2005, 01:13 PM

i dont see how you cant call.. unless you put him on AA, AK or 44

Kyriefurro · #3 12-09-2005, 01:24 PM

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i dont see how you cant call.. unless you put him on AA, AK or 44

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I agree. AA or AK are real possibilities, but it seems unlikely villain would hold 44 until the river with that board.

If villain really is TAG then his raising range on the button is pretty wide. This could easily be a slow play with a hand like KQ or KJ, or maybe villain hit his AQ/AT hand on that turn. Or it could be an outright bluff (not likely IMO, but possible).

orange · #4 12-09-2005, 01:30 PM

I really don't like your flop check. Try and get the money ASAP until that ugly turn hits (other ugly turns may be a Q,J,K,etc). I think you should lead here and build a pot.

River is ugly, and I think you lost to AK, but villan may have a K10s,KQ, enough to call.

Bukem_ · #5 12-09-2005, 01:36 PM

Bet the flop. Then the money goes in when he has a king.

Good players will check behind this flop with a pocket pair, and only gave you action when they hit their two outer.

As played, river is fold.

Kyriefurro · #6 12-09-2005, 01:38 PM

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I really don't like your flop check. Try and get the money ASAP

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Villain was a thinking TAG. A thinking TAG who had position on me, and a 2.5 post-flop AF. I was hoping he had a K, and even if he didn't this type of flop is perfect for a C/B. At the time I checked I felt about 90% certain villain would fire a bet. I was pretty astonished when he didn't.

I agree that I want to build the pot on the flop. In fact I really wanted to be all-in on the flop. I simply chose the wrong method to go about doing it.

Kyriefurro · #7 12-09-2005, 01:53 PM

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Bet the flop. Then the money goes in when he has a king.

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And he'll fold all of the other times when he doesn't have a king. There are a lot of hands that he'd raise with here pre-flop. I want to give him the chance to put some money in when he's drawing thin or dead. It should also be noted that if he *does* have a K, he's got 9 outs to beat my hand, so hes drawing very live.

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Good players will check behind this flop with a pocket pair, and only gave you action when they hit their two outer.

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If they only give me action when they have the nuts, they're not very good players. A good player will think about what I'm holding. He will know that since I cold-called his raise from UTG I either have some really big cards or a pocket pair. He will understand that he doesn't want to give me a chance to hit MY two-outter on the turn. He will realize that if he bets here, it will be very difficult for me to call the flop, unless I have a K, in which case he can fold to my raise without regret.

All told, his checking behind is probably a far worse mistake than my unintentionally slow-playing a flopped boat.

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As played, river is fold.

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I'd love to hear your reasoning here, as this is the one part of the hand that I feel is questionable.

Bukem_ · #8 12-09-2005, 02:12 PM

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As played, river is fold.

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I'd love to hear your reasoning here, as this is the one part of the hand that I feel is questionable.

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Players don't raise pre, check paired board, call turn, push river as part of some elaborate bluff. Donkeys have a King, Tags have at least a boat here 99% of the time.

Bukem_ · #9 12-09-2005, 02:17 PM

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And he'll fold all of the other times when he doesn't have a king.

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Start betting mid pocket pairs as well as 33 and AK on this flop.

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He will realize that if he bets here, it will be very difficult for me to call the flop, unless I have a K, in which case he can fold to my raise without regret.

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Thats why most of the time when I cr this flop vs a tag, I have nothing.

kevbo · #10 12-09-2005, 03:38 PM

I always push this hand after the flop against a TAG. You have a great, yet vulnerable hand and your bet will tell you if he has a K. A TAG is very unlikely to call without one. The only time I ever slow play a flopped boat against a TAG is when I have the top-end of it. After he pushed in on the river I would then look back to his flop check, this tells me he likely had a big hand and thought he was letting you catch up. Or it is also possible yet less likely that the KK on board scared him and he caught his miracle on the turn.

After the flop I would lead into this hand and pray he had a K so I could get all of my money in! Unfortunately, as it turns out in your hand it looks like your beat. My guess is probably AK, maybe AA. Not Sure A TAG would push all-in here with KQ or KJ.

- KEVBO -