SSNL Theory Question: Controlling pot size?

[Kyriefurro]

In a previous post someone said that one of the mistakes that Limit players make when they move to No Limit is failure to control pot size. And I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm one of those players. I'm honestly not clear on this concept. So.....

1) What do meant by it?

2) How do you do it?

3) When does it apply?

[Andrew Fletcher]

LHE players love big pots because it allows them to chase draws. NL players want to avoid playing big pots unless they know they have a good hand. In NLHE, showdowns are much less frequent and the strength of your hand is often unknown in relation to your opponents hand. Therefore, good NL players try to control the size of the pot if they are unsure of their relative strength.

Let's say you've got AQo in the CO. A uber-tight player raises 3xbb from UTG. From playing with him, you know that this likely means AA-JJ or AK. You're the only caller. The flop comes As-5d-8c. He bets 2/3 of the pot, which is standard for him. You call. Flop is a blank and he checks. You check behind.

The turn check is an example of a move designed to keep the pot small. You want to get to a cheap showdown if he's got JJ-KK and avoid putting too much money in the pot if he has AA or AK. He'll most likely make a smallish bet (btw 1/2-2/3 of the pot) on fifth street, which you can easily call.

The main difference between NL and L is that a player can control pot odds and give their opponents opportunities to make mistakes. According to TOP, those mistakes equal money in your pocket.

As a note, the players in the very high-stakes NL games (like 25/50 and up) often wind up playing big pots with medicore hands. The theory doesn't change, but the players are so much better that they try to manipulate each other and throw eachother off balance. It's really pretty cool to watch.

[Kyriefurro]

So you're basically describing a standard WA/WB situation. You want to get to showdown, but you want to do it as cheaply as possible. Since in NL a bet tends to be sized in relationship to the pot, keeping the post small keeps the price of showdown small.

What other types of situation would this apply to?

And what would you do if you were OOP since a check will tend to induce a bet (and often a large bet) behind which may or may not be a bluff?

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
And what would you do if you were OOP since a check will tend to induce a bet (and often a large bet) behind which may or may not be a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the reasons playing NL OOP is so tough, esp against good players. It is quite difficult to control pot size by checking. Being OOP in NL just plain sucks and oddly enough this one of those things that took me a long time to really internalize, because a lot of the poor SSNL players wont put pressure on you when you are OOP.

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]

What other types of situation would this apply to?


[/ QUOTE ]

All this talk about not getting stacked with top pair ?
Well, obviously you're looking for that against some special opponents, but against a semi-thinking or even good opponent, a top pair hand isn't exactly a ticket to the bank. So you might consider keeping the pot small in these cases, "eliminate a street" (which is done by checking behind, but not necessarily on the turn, it depends), catching bluffs and the like.

In NL and PL you need to watch pot size in relation to stack sizes. You do not want to build a pot with a mediocre hand, only to discover on the river that the size of the pot is so large that your (now) small stacked opponent(s) will be compelled to call with anything.

Maintaining pot control may get you to a cheaper showdown, if that's what you need. It will also give you more leverage to make a move on the pot during the hand if that's your choice. Think about it in terms of pot size in relation to stack size.

Simply stated pot control is knowing when and how much to bet based on number of opponents and their range of hands, flop texture (to shut out draws, etc.), existing pot size, and stack sizes. The variables are endless.

You do it carefully and with practice. Always.

[Andrew Fletcher]

bump. this is a good thread.

What does bump mean

[beavens]

[ QUOTE ]
What does bump mean

[/ QUOTE ]

to "bump" a thread to the top of the main page.

basically you make so it will be seen/read by more people as opposed to it being down on the bottom of the main page, or hidden back in the 2nd or 3rd pages.

Thanks...bump