JJ - Overpair on a ragged board. Think I F'd this up

[Kyriefurro]

BB is a complete unknown - this is his very first hand at the table.

SB is an 80/15/4 moron. Plays all the wrong hands, and plays them strongly. He also just stacked me 2 hands ago [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Stacks:
Hero - 98.50
SB - 249
BB - 100

Hero is on the Button w/ J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop <font color="blue"> (5 players) </font>: SB posts a $0.50 blind, BB posts a $1 blind, UTG folds, CO folds, Hero <font color="red"> raises to $5 </font>, SB calls, Button <font color="red"> raises to $18 </font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

<font color="green"> Ugh! I hate this type of play from an unknown. If he's a solid player it could be any PP from 99 up, if he's a maniac it could be almost anything. Worse, my raise looks somewhat like a steal attempt, so it could be a re-steal. If this was full-ring, I think it might be a fold, but with just 5 players.......</font>

($54) Flop <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets $46, Hero calls, SB calls.

($192) Turn <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets $36 (all-in), Hero calls for $34.50 (all-in), SB calls.

I hate this hand. None of BB's post-flop bets was unreasonable. His flop bet could easily have been a continuation bet with AK (yes he's betting into a PFR, but I'm sure we've all seen it before). The turn bet is a little more scare, but by then the pot is just huge...and SB's almost guaranteed to call also.

In hind sight, I'm thinking that if I'd planned far enough ahead on this, I'd have realized I was going to end up with all my chips in the middle. That being the case, I should have pushed on the flop. It probably wouldn't have changed anything, but it just might have gotten one, or both villains to fold.

The alternative is to fold PF, but I just hate that against an unknown.

You definitely should have forseen him pushing the turn...his play smells over wired overpair. Other than a total bluff, what is it you beat? Pocket 10's maybe...Its up to you if you want to play this way against an unknown...but I fold on the flop and wait until I get some reads.

[djhoneybear]

Unless you know this guy is a maniac chances are he is turning of KKs or AAs, maybe QQs. I think you are beat preflop and should have folded. If you are willing to go this far with JJs then you should have re-raised preflop to see how much he likes his hand.

[PinkSteel]

Yesterday I picked up QQ in MP, very first hand at the table. Raise to 4xBB, 1 caller, SB calls... BB reraises to 16xBB. Like a complete idiot, I re-reraise him, he pushes, I call. OF COURSE he has AA. OF COURSE.

[Kyriefurro]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you know this guy is a maniac chances are he is turning of KKs or AAs, maybe QQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a 5-handed game on a 6-max table (shoulda included that in the OP). So there's a broader range or hands that 3-bet here, even from a solid TAG, including AK, AQ, KQ, any pair TT+. If you add in SB going along for the right you might even increase that range. And if BB is even slight LAG preflop that range increases dramatically.

I think folding JJ on a table like this preflop is a mistake.

[Kyriefurro]

Yeah, I guess folding the flop is a viable alternative. I just hate doing it. It makes me feel like I'm leaving money on the table long run.

If BB is a solid player, that the floplead could easily be a continuation bet with A high. If he's LAG it could be bottom pair.

In an ideal world, our stacks would have been deep enough for me to re-raise and see how serious he was...but it's not an ideal world. And since SB came along for the ride, PF the pot is rather bloated.

Did I mention I hate this hand? lol

Edit: Changed PF to flop, which is what I meant to say, but the fingers took a shortcut lol.

[arod15]

Fold the flop...

[ QUOTE ]

If BB is a solid player, that PF lead could easily be a continuation bet with A high. If he's LAG it could be bottom pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

It COULD be a continuation bet. Or you COULD be totally dominated. The issue is, you just don't know. Is it really smart risking all your chips on an unknown?

Because he's unknown, you have to assume this guy is playing it straight...and that indicates he has a hand that probably owns you.

[Kyriefurro]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really smart risking all your chips on an unknown?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

The really sick part of this whole thing is, two hands later PA Hud threw this guys stats up on the screen. Although I didn't remember having ever played him, I had 50 hands on him. His PFR was 3.6%. Hand I known this when the hand played out, I'd have never been in it [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Since you dont have any reads i would fold pf. I cant see how you can call flop, push or fold. I would fold witouth thinking twice about it.