JTo in LP - Page 3

Aaron W. · #21 12-07-2005, 12:50 PM

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A raise may get the BB to fold a guthot draw or a better jack and will probably allow you to take a free card off on the turn if you think you are drawing.

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What good does it do to fold out BB's gutshot or better jack if you don't have the best hand in the first place? Notice that there are only 7.5 bets in the pot, and a raise to protect it is a 25% pot size raise.

Hero wasn't thinking that this was a free card raise because he bet the turn.

#22 12-07-2005, 01:43 PM

As they say: **GRUNCH**

I think you could pick a better hand to isolate with. It seems to me a good isolation hand should have high card strength - which JTo does not. I'd just limp behind.

The flop raise looks good. You've got a pair which could could be best (though villians bet makes that less likely), a gutshot and backdoor flush draw. I like your raise.

What are you trying to accomplish on the turn? I'd just take the free card.

River looks good. You're behind too often to bet here.

charlie_t_jr · #23 12-07-2005, 02:42 PM

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Villain in this hand is unknown. BB is a fish, but not awful.....

Hoping to isolate the limper.

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I like your plan, but I just don't like the JTo. Maybe I'm too weak/tight.

Villian is unkown so I would consider him "typical". Which means he could be open limping with a lot of hands A/K/Q-rag.

BB is Fish which = loose, so chances are you're not going to isolate anyway.

Eeegah · #24 12-07-2005, 02:53 PM

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Villian is unkown so I would consider him "typical". Which means he could be open limping with a lot of hands A/K/Q-rag.

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As a fun experiment, I took a look at the summary for my 12k hands at Stars .50/1.

Average VPIP is 27.40 with a PFR of 6.96. However, I play a lot of shorthand at 10-seat tables (I like sitting at an empty table and letting people come to me), so their full ring stats may be lower.

Even so, I ran pokerstove for the hell of it against a typical 27.4% vpip range and we came out a 40/60 dog. Not that it means anything, just fun.

ReptileHouse · #25 12-07-2005, 03:00 PM

I raise this pre-flop pretty much never.

Given that you raised, however, I like the way you played the rest of the hand.

That flop hit a reasonable portion of your raising hand range, so villain is going to be worried unless he hit really strongly. With the gutshot, you know you can call a 3-bet here profitably if it happens, and you'd really like to get BB out of the hand. I like this raise.

I probably bet this on the turn, too, but I don't really like it. If it were heads up, I'd like it more, but 3-way it feels iffy. BB cold-calling two on the flop screams flush-draw, though, and I really don't want to give a free card. Keeping the pressure on UTG+1 is also good. I would grimace and probably fold to a raise here as that implies I am very behind and have at most 4 outs.

On the river, I think the odds of getting a better hand to fold are pretty low. No read on UTG+1, so it's hard to know what % of his hand range you're ahead of here. Add in the fact that the flush just came in and I think this is a pretty clear check-behind situation.

I expect to be shown KJo or a busted straight draw (KTo) pretty often here. Pretty common to see a flush, too, I think, hoping to c/r you on the end knowing you possibly fold to a donk bet given the amount of aggression you've shown so far.

This will be a good hand to learn a fair bit about the villain.

milesdyson · #26 12-07-2005, 03:05 PM

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Even so, I ran pokerstove for the hell of it against a typical 27.4% vpip range and we came out a 40/60 dog. Not that it means anything, just fun.

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you probably forgot to remove his top ~7% hands (ie. the ones he raises).

Eeegah · #27 12-07-2005, 03:31 PM

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Even so, I ran pokerstove for the hell of it against a typical 27.4% vpip range and we came out a 40/60 dog. Not that it means anything, just fun.

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you probably forgot to remove his top ~7% hands (ie. the ones he raises).

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I removed those (AA-TT, AJ+ KQ) and we're still a slight dog, 55-45. This flop doesn't hit most the big hands.
edit: wait a minute yeah this hits big hands and the stove calculations don't matter there anyway cause this is preflop. I need coffee.

Niediam · #28 12-07-2005, 06:14 PM

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A raise may get the BB to fold a guthot draw or a better jack and will probably allow you to take a free card off on the turn if you think you are drawing.

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What good does it do to fold out BB's gutshot or better jack if you don't have the best hand in the first place? Notice that there are only 7.5 bets in the pot, and a raise to protect it is a 25% pot size raise.

Hero wasn't thinking that this was a free card raise because he bet the turn.

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Because we then win if BB folds a better jack and the case jack hits or if BBs gutshot outs gives us two pair (btw, this topic is coverd in TOP).

Even if I thought I was probably behind and raised for a free card I would then also bet the turn when the Q pairs the board as it makes it less likey that we were behind.

#29 12-07-2005, 06:24 PM

:grunch:

Wow you are a bit aggressive with that flop raise. The bet on the turn is iffy because if UTG+1 had an Q you gave him a chance to c/r. And actually since you didn't get c/r on the turn you might as well fire again on the river.

@bsolute_luck · #30 12-07-2005, 07:16 PM

i like how the hand was played unless UTG is ABC and only donks TP in which case i would have folded. we hope to fold a stronger J and get most value from a T8 or J9.

yeah we open ourselves up to a c/r, but again, unless he's tricky, it is still a good bet for the same reasons as the flop raise. it works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. i don't make it a habit or suggest it as a "typical" line, but it is by no means a spew or horribly wrong.