Long Time No Post : AJo on the Button

[Evan]

I still don't understand why this is better than rasing the turn. Everyone is saying "standard" and "nice play" but I don't think this is how most people play it. Why not raise the turn? I do not think he is folding an ace and that is basically all we care about, right? I mean, we're not counting on him putting in all these bets with less than an ace I would think. What if he pusses out and checks the river? I just don't see what you get from waiting.

[NLSoldier]

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weaker aces will probably call, and as a bonus the A7/T7 hands are pissed now

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Just a little thing, but AT is still ahead of him.

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Just a little thing, but read the post you quoted again.

If he is on a draw, your raise on the turn guarantees you a an extra bet. If he reraises you back, and you feel you're beat, you can either: Call him down (a total of three bets) or fold (save two bets). You are either maxing your value or saving $$. Either way, I see nothing wrong here.

If he has an ace, maybe he folds, but more likely he'll call one more time, as the pot is already large enough to justify a call. You MAY lose a big bet on the river by doing this, but since you raised off the flop, just calling on the turn is just as suspicious as raising on it. I say, get your money in when you can.

The only time Villain folds is if he has a small pair, but I don't see him playing a small pair this way. The board is A 7 10 9 on the turn. 1010 and 99, he's raising preflop. He may play 77-88 the way he did, but I see him raising preflop with these hands too. 22-66, he's not playing the flop this way; too tough to put him on these hands if he is, I'm not really considering them at this point.

Your best bet is that he either has two pair, an A, or he's on a draw. Get your money in on the turn, go from there. Most of the time, you'll be maximizing value if you are ahead, and a good laydown can only happen if you pick up something on the turn.

Argun

I like this line a lot. Ive taken to raising the river in the face of an aggressor, because in my experience, it is unlikely that you'll get three-bet. This is a perfect hand to do it with, since your kicker plays.

Sometimes, you lose an extra bet, but the way I see it, I would have lost more had I raised the turn and gotten 3-bet, or I would have lost close the same if I'd raised the flop, and gotten 3-bet and then bet into on the turn. Bottom line is that HU, holding a hand like AJ with top pair, you're going to showdown 100% of the time.

The key question is extracting value when ahead, and losing the least when behind. The previous paragraphd talks about losing the least. The next paragraph talks about extracting value.

The benefit to raising the river comes when you're playing a TAG/LAG who might have been showing early street agrression on a marginal hand. In this case, I'm talking about a weak ace, or perhaps a hand like QQ that for some reason he didnt want to reraise preflop OOP against you. Often times, these guys holding something respectable like TPNK or a decent sized pocket pair, will bet thier hands like the nuts, and you'll get maximum value by raising the river.

nh.

[gonores]

This is standard for me. I'm on a 20458693BB downswing. You do the math. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What are your plans if he bets a 6 river? What about a Jack river? I think you can make a case for flat-calling a 6. Are you allowed to call a 3-bet on the Jack?

[NLSoldier]

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This is standard for me. I'm on a 20458693BB downswing. You do the math. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

What are your plans if he bets a 6 river? What about a Jack river? I think you can make a case for flat-calling a 6. Are you allowed to call a 3-bet on the Jack?

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[censored]. its standard for me too. thats not a good sign for you.

[ResidentParanoid]

Decent aggro has seen your pre-flop raise, and check-raises the A-high flop because he either has something, and/or wants to isolate you because he thinks you're trying to steal. Trying to knock out the weak player seems to discount the pure draw.

I don't see what the river raise accomplishes. If he's decent, would he be going to war with you with less than A8? If he had the obvious draw (89) on the flop he also has you slaughtered.

Your only hope is that he had weaker ace (A8 in particular) or middle pair or worse. I'd put my raise in on the turn to punish the possible draws, or charge the weaker ace early, or find out you're beat.

[ghostface]

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I think your use of superlatives and grammar are also poor.

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If you must criticize grammar, be correct yourself.

[Justin A]

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weaker aces will probably call, and as a bonus the A7/T7 hands are pissed now

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Just a little thing, but AT is still ahead of him.

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Just a little thing, but read the post you quoted again.

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7's and T's look alike. Damn.

[GuyOnTilt]

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I still don't understand why this is better than rasing the turn. Everyone is saying "standard" and "nice play" but I don't think this is how most people play it.

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Hey Evan,

You are right of course that the standard play here is to 3bet the flop. Like you, I doubt that many people wait till the river here.

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Why not raise the turn? I do not think he is folding an ace and that is basically all we care about, right? I mean, we're not counting on him putting in all these bets with less than an ace I would think.

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There haven't been that many bets put in so far. The guy defended his blind versus a Button isoraise and check-raised the flop. He doesn't need to have an Ace here, though he probably will most of the time he has a pair. The reason not to raise the turn here is because we cannot fold to a 3bet. It is not super unlikely he has us beat. The two-pair hands out there are ones that will def be in his range here, and getting 3bet sucks here given the size of the pot and the fact that I cannot fold the turn. At the same time it's not highly unlikely I could be beat here, it's also not highly likely I am, and I would like to extract value somewhere if it's possible to at some point. That point is the river, where I can fold to a 3bet very easily and clearly. Aces are still calling here, as my hand up to this point looks nothing like a strong Ace, and I would not be surprised at all if he couldn't fold a T which he decided to bet for value on the river.

GoT