Can you lay down KK pre-flop in NL cash game?

[KenProspero]

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I then progressed to saying "I am good enough to fold Kings pre-flop," although I was not actually good enough to lay down Kings pre-flop.

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In an agressive game, I readily admit that I'm not good enough to fold KK. There are too many hands other than AA that the raiser can have. Given the pot odds I call.

(BTW, I'm with others in the camp of not loving the limp-raise with KK)

limp raising KK is the worst move in poker.

you deserved to go broke.


How do you play them? My thinking at the time:

1) There are some very LAGgy types at the table, felt very certain it would be raised

2) I hoped a $120 raise into $100 pot would take it down OR let me know where I stood (problem: villain let me know, I just didn't listen)
3) I play very few hands, and others at the table did notice--I realize limp/re-raise often times indicates AA or KK (I have tried with JJ--I hate that hand). Usually this I'll try in loose game from UTG or UTG+1.

It was suggested that I just call $30. Flop was all low cards (10 9 3). I'm out of position and really won't know where I stand at any point. Given stack size of myself & opponent, either I say "I'll always play KK pre-flop" or I gave myself an out by raising to $150 and then villain went over the top for $357 more on a tight player who has shown aggression in the hand. Not just a read on opponent, but also a read on what opponent thinks of me.

I often get lots of respect (ie, bet TPTK strong w/ single opponent and someone else assumes I had a set). I know I need to expand my game & exploit this "rep". I don't also stick to top 7 hands to play for sure. I just try not to play marginal situations and go broke like so many people in that game can/do (ie, QJo played like it's the nuts on Q high flop).

What I've learned:

1) tough to lay down KK preflop, unless you have a very good read
2) limp reraise maybe not the best route (defines your hand, good players will know)

[wslee00]

totally depends on the table on whether limp-re-raising KK is ok. For instance, I was at a table last night where a player was raising probably 50% of the pots. In this instance, I limp-re-raise the bastard. He probably has nothing. Now if he re-raises me, then I know he actually has something and act accordingly.

[Bulldog]

I did it once. I had to play the hand as poorly as any I've ever played to do it, but it turned out to be the right move, eventually.

First or second time playing 1/2 300NL at Borgata. I have about $570 and am playing around to the blind and then going home.
Next to last hand, UTG+1, KK.
UTG limps.
I raise to 12.
LP raises to 30.
UTG calls.
I raise to 92.
LP pushes.
UTG calls.
I've got them both covered by about $301. My n00b thought process is "I spent all freakin day making this money, I don't want to lose all the profit when I was ready to leave!" So I'm faced with about $180 more, with about $630 already in there. I agonize for as long as I can get away with and fold 'em face up.
LP and UTG don't show.
Flop is Axx.
Turn x.
River Q.
LP tables AA.
UTG curses and claims to have had QQ.

I laid down KK preflop once -- But only because it was against a player that I played with a lot and I knew the way the action went that he had AA.

I laid my hand down face up -- he showed his Aces and the rest of the table was terrfiied of me the rest of the night.

If I did not know that player so well I would not have laid it down.

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I laid my hand down face up -- he showed his Aces and the rest of the table was terrfiied of me the rest of the night.

If I did not know that player so well I would not have laid it down.

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I laid down AA on a good read at Excalibur one day and the entire table was pissed at me. Apparently there's this wheel you can spin if you get your Aces cracked, and the bad beat jackpot is for losing with a fullhouse containing pocket Aces.

[surfinillini]

I've only done it once and it was one of the proudest moments in my life.

Seriously though, I had played with my opponent before, stacks were deep 1000+ and I didn't wanna risk 1K on KK preflop, even on just an intuition I was up against AA.

My read was dead on and he was graceful enough to show me the AA once I showed him what I layed down.

It all depends on your read, is this guy the type of player to push ALL IN with 10s thru Qs and possible AKs?

that's where the answer lies.

[mostsmooth]

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Ten-handed it is 20-1 against villain having AA so without a Hellmuthian read, you have to call.

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somebody is going to have to explain the 20-1 against aces thing in this spot

[SirFelixCat]

I've done it once...here is the post of it:

Playing $1/$2 ($200max) NL live last weekend. Been at the table since it opened in the early evening. Built my stack to @ $750. Villan has @$350. Read on him is he is solid, but has LAG-ish qualities. Will only reraise with made/very solid hands.

I'm UTG and find KK. I raise to $23 (not an over the top raise for the table as most have large stacks compared to the buy-in...avg is $300+...also, we had a "prime number" joke running for raises at the table, hence the $23). Folded to villan in MP who starts talking to me and reraises me $80 more. Folded around to me. I go in the tank for about a minute and look him over. He seems quite relaxed and is talking to me the whole time. Finally, I decide to lay it down and toss him my K's face up. His face drops and asks "How did you get away from K's?" I smiled and said, "Easily when you have Aces" He flashed black A's to the table and I feel like a million bucks.

Am I making too much of this? Is this "normal" to be able to lay down a big PP preflop?

Thread on my laydown and how most wouldn't.

The thing is, when I showed it, many do not like that idea. Me, while I can see the argument of showing/not showing, I was able to run the table over if I picked my spots, as they all played in fear/awe of me from then on. Me likey that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BeantownCaller]

I fold QQ preflop like its my job (well...for a month straight every single time I had QQ someone else had KK or AA...I once folded it twice in an hour and was shown a bigger pocket pair both times).

Anyhow, the way you played the hand I don't think you can get away from it. You have a lot of money in there already and since it was a sorta wild table I think I'd throw the chips in there and cross my fingers.

Limp reraising sorta makes it possible to get away from it, but unless the villain is exceptionally tight, especially when it comes to reraising preflop...its hard to lay down.

if you had made it 30 to go and villain pumped to $90 it'd be even harder I think. A reraise will pretty much pot commit you (say you make it $200 straight), and if you smooth call and take a flop and there's no ace he's gonna get your money...