I know I shouldn't, but I just can't help it... - Page 2

Jimbo · #11 07-11-2003, 02:10 PM

"Ok, if he can't play how is it that he wins? IMHO it is easier for words to deceive than results.

Exactly my point! Phil has written that it costs him in excess of $50k per month throughout the year to stay on the tournament trail. Seems easy to compute that if he wins less than $600K per year he hasn't won anything at all. Remember if you enter every tournament you are going to win some of them, in spite of yourself. Personally as long as you assure me you are a winning low limit poker player I would rather have your "poker income" than Phils.

thomastem · #12 07-11-2003, 02:51 PM

When Doyle Brunson plays his 10-2s or k-x flush draws people don't respect him less? Why? Because of image.

I don't have the numbers on profit loss but according to Cardplayer.com these are the rankings for this year:

Rank Player Points
1 Amir Vahedi 4348
2 Men Nguyen 4333
3 Phil Hellmuth 4080
4 Chip Jett 3732
5 John Juanda 3706
6 David Pham 3646
7 Mark Seif 3526
8 Jim Meehan 3492
9 T.J. Cloutier 3228
10 Erik Seidel 3136
11 Phil Ivey 3028
12 Daniel Negreanu 2944
13 John Hoang 2866
14 Scotty Nguyen 2859
15 Chris Ferguson 2806
16 Howard Lederer 2658
17 Barry Greenstein 2448
18 Christopher Moneymaker 2400
19 Jon Brody 2382
20 Chris Karagulleyan 2380
More ....

Jimbo · #13 07-11-2003, 03:02 PM

Again you demonstrate my point thomastem, thanks again. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Chris Moneymaker is ranked 18th yet has won more money this year than any other player listed in the tournament rankings. Why is Phil there at all you ask? Because he entered many more tournaments though his profit to expense ratio is certainly worse than Mr. Moneymakers. Which would you rather be? Number three and a money loser or number 18 and money ahead by about $2,499,960.00 ?

Bama Boy · #14 07-11-2003, 03:12 PM

Cardplayer shows Phil H. with $677,170 in tournament winnings for the year so far. If his yearly expenses for playing are roughly $600,000 a year, then he obviously is up some for the year, but clearly not alot in comparison to what he spends. He also has 4 1/2 months of poker to win or lose more, but a lot of the bigger events have already taken place.

Good for Phil he has a new book and UB to fall back on.

Tommy Angelo · #15 07-11-2003, 03:50 PM

As to Phil the writer ... when I pick up a Card Player, I often start with Phil's article because I can count on being entertained.

As to Card Player ... it ain't Harper's and doesn't claim to be. And hey, it's free. Nobody there owes us a thing.

As to Phil ... I've played ring game no-limit with the guy a few times, and we've had a few emails, and he's a-okay in my book. Noisy, but not mean. Kinda like Ulysses. :-)

Tommy

cferejohn · #16 07-11-2003, 04:47 PM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Cardplayer shows Phil H. with $677,170 in tournament winnings for the year so far. If his yearly expenses for playing are roughly $600,000 a year, then he obviously is up some for the year, but clearly not alot in comparison to what he spends. He also has 4 1/2 months of poker to win or lose more, but a lot of the bigger events have already taken place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, he can only win more, not lose it. The $600,000 figure was for the entire year, meaning he hasn't actually spent it yet. I'm inclined to think he has more skill than he lets on in his writing (not sure if it is intentional or if he is just a crappy writer). Even given that he has the advantage of entering nearly every event, which I can't imagine a lot of players do, I have a hard time thinking that 9 WSOP bracelets is due to luck.

Otoh, it would be nice if those CardPlayer rankings deducted money spent on entry fees in qualifying events (they must have this data, since they know who entered what), and then make the list such that you need to have entered at least 5 events (or some cutoff) to qualify for the list. Kind of like a batting title in baseball.

Ed Miller · #17 07-11-2003, 07:37 PM

You keep saying that Phil has won lots of money, and you can't argue with results. My question is, how much money, exactly, has Phil won? I mean net... wins minus losses (minus poker-related expenses).

You have no idea, and neither do I. So no one is going to be compelled by the "look how much money" argument.

TimTimSalabim · #18 07-11-2003, 08:02 PM

He sure the heck makes it to a lot of final tables of major tournaments. Now, maybe it's because he enters all the major tourneys, but then so do a lot of players who don't do nearly as well.

And, of course, had I bothered to read the rest of this thread before I posted this, I would have seen that someone has already posted his ranking, which looks pretty damn good.

TimTimSalabim · #19 07-11-2003, 08:14 PM

So basically, he'll probably clear over a million by the end of the year, minus 600k expenses. I'd settle for a 400k salary for playing tournament poker and be laughing at my critics all the way to the bank.

bernie · #20 07-11-2003, 08:28 PM

hey, that's a world champion youre besmirchin'.

yknow, i wonder why he didnt also state the reasoning behind this fact. there had to be one. it couldnt have been a stand alone 'fact' without explanation.

ive also noticed when he's on scenes in the WPT that theyve been showing him and some of his actions when he loses. just quick cut scenes, but most dont paint him in the best light.

could you imagine if he didnt bet on that fact? it couldve easliy showed up in his book under a handranking or some crap.

b