I take a stand against Bluff raisers......+EV?

mtdoak · #1 07-08-2005, 09:20 AM

At this table, I've been bet/folding alot of turns. Like KQ, flop comes 8 high, turn is an A, i bet/fold to any raise. Bet folding on the turn has happened 4 or 5 times in the last 3 rounds, and I think the fish are catching on....

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $3.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Villian is SLa....I felt he would do this with a hand as weak as a pair of 49 or a K2. Even if he does have a raggedy king, I wanted to show the table that I'm not going to just roll over to every bluff raise.

River: (11.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Thoughts?

marand · #2 07-08-2005, 09:31 AM

Just call down after his turn raise. 3-betting here is pretty bad IMO since it will make him fold a stupid bluff which he would have bet on the river. 3-betting also costs you an extra bet when you are behind (pretty often).

mtdoak · #3 07-08-2005, 09:36 AM

It wasn't that I really thought I was ahead or behind here...its that I wanted players to see that they can't just run me over by raising the turn, which is what I felt they were trying to do with marginal hands.

Transference · #4 07-08-2005, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't that I really thought I was ahead or behind here...its that I wanted players to see that they can't just run me over by raising the turn, which is what I felt they were trying to do with marginal hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not be patient and capitalize on this when you have a strong hand?

TMFS9 · #5 07-08-2005, 10:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
its that I wanted players to see that they can't just run me over by raising the turn, which is what I felt they were trying to do with marginal hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not just change tables? It's obvious that you feel your table image is shot. But that being said, if you really want to raise this hand to advertise, I would much rather wait for the river to raise.

PokerBob · #6 07-08-2005, 10:34 AM

I hate that turn raise. If he has a K, he is calling down and you are toasted. If he is on air or a crappy pair, he will likely fold. Let him further slit his throat by just calling and letting him fire at the river.

Also, I think you need to be careful when you feel people are taking shots at you. It is not uncommon for them to have a hand 4 times in a row. I know I have been burned a few times by this where I think "No WAY do you have me beat again. I'm looking you up." I usually lose. Just something to consider.

PokerBob · #7 07-08-2005, 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't that I really thought I was ahead or behind here...its that I wanted players to see that they can't just run me over by raising the turn, which is what I felt they were trying to do with marginal hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling here does the same thing, and puts BB in BAD spot on the river when he is full of it (to follow through with the bluff or not.)

Nigel · #8 07-08-2005, 10:55 AM

Not sure why you'd put him on that, but you're behind to 49 on the turn.

Bad turn raise. Raise river if anything.

Nigel

aba20 · #9 07-08-2005, 11:40 AM

I do this sometimes also. I do it when I am in my "I have to show everyone that I am more of a man and have a larger penis" mood. It is how I tilt and I estimate it costs me .5-1BB/100 in my winrate. This is either a fold against a predictable opponent or a call down against an aggressive one.

mtdoak · #10 07-08-2005, 12:22 PM

So your saying I'm trying to compensate for something with the turn 3 bet?