D'Agostino's antics - Page 3

45suited · #21 07-05-2005, 02:04 PM

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Baloney. HUGE preflop overbet steals are bad, period. It's not an issue of "stones". Betting 650,000 to steal the blinds is garbage. Running into TT is not bad luck, in fact the precise reason this play is so bad is because the BB will occasionally have TT-AA and you will lose so much these times that you won't make up for it by successfully stealing the vast majority of the time. It just plain sucks, no matter of opinion.

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I guess Corkins is just stupid. Hopefully he'll get some smarts so that maybe one day he can win a WPT event. Perhaps you should give him lessons.

Also, at that point in the game the blinds were pretty big, if I recall correctly. I really don't think he raised 20XBB, but I could be wrong. Whatever, that's his style and it works well for him.

-Skeme- · #22 07-05-2005, 02:11 PM

This might've been posted already, but I'm pretty sure Hoyt said something to the extent of, "Just shove 'em on over."

And I think Hoyt kept asking for a count over and over right after the huge suckout. Not easy to take when you've counted your stack like 3 times and realized you have 1 chip, and the guy who just pulled a monstrous suckout keeps asking you to check and see if the last chip is his too.

45suited · #23 07-05-2005, 02:12 PM

NYC, you make a good point, but if I recall correctly, when called the all-in with 9s, he had a huge chiplead and was getting proper odds to call after his initial raise.

In the hand with Corkins, the blinds were getting pretty big, and he only had Corkins covered by ONE chip. So to say that he would call off his whole stack with less than a premium hand would be incorrect. Hoyt had the guts to make the play, got unlucky that Dags had TT, then got lucky and sucked out.

I don't see how the play was so horrible. Anybody who's seen Corkins play knows that this is his style. The man has one WPT win and another 2nd place, I believe, so give him some respect.

TheMainEvent · #24 07-05-2005, 02:14 PM

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I guess Corkins is just stupid. Hopefully he'll get some smarts so that maybe one day he can win a WPT event. Perhaps you should give him lessons.

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All indication is that he is a great tournament player. Excuse me for not being starstruck into thinking every move the guy makes is perfect. His play was a mistake, I'm not taking that back just because he's Hoyt Corkins. I would guess that even he realized this in retrospect.

NYCNative · #25 07-05-2005, 02:18 PM

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So to say that he would call off his whole stack with less than a premium hand would be incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]He called them all off (essentially) with Tens. Without much thought. That pretty much proves my point, I'd say.

drewjustdrew · #26 07-05-2005, 02:19 PM

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I guess Corkins is just stupid. Hopefully he'll get some smarts so that maybe one day he can win a WPT event. Perhaps you should give him lessons.

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All indication is that he is a great tournament player. Excuse me for not being starstruck into thinking every move the guy makes is perfect. His play was a mistake, I'm not taking that back just because he's Hoyt Corkins. I would guess that even he realized this in retrospect.

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What's worse, making an aggressive move on the pot, trying to force a fold, or calling for "all" your chips against the one person who can do this to you when you are tied for the chip lead (with a strong, but still vulnerable hand)?

45suited · #27 07-05-2005, 02:20 PM

You're just being results oriented. The play turned out to be "bad" because Dags had TT. Fact is, 90% of the time, Corkins picks up the blinds (substantial at that point) and of the 10% that he's called, occassionally he gets lucky too. Ever consider that his tournament record is so good because he makes plays like this?

Kyo Souma II · #28 07-05-2005, 02:21 PM

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He went all in for like 20x the pot knowing that he's either going to win a small pot or be drawing very slim against an overpair in an enormous one. That's not a "play", that's suicidal.

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I'm not sure of this, but I don't think it was 20x pot. Either way, Corkins' style of play is to always put pressure on his opponents. If I recall correctly, he also put in a massive re-raise with KK against Ramdin's AK. Very different scenarios, I understand, but the point is that Corkins plays a very aggresive style and will put in a big raise with a monster as well as 78o.

Obviously it works very well for him, it was just bad luck that he ran into TT. Give him credit for having the stones to play the way he does.

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It was an awful play. Don't attempt to rationalize it, because once you run the numbers, you'll realize just how bad it was. He runs into calling hands that have him ~20-80 quite a bit, and ~40-60 even more than that.

This play gets worse and worse every time you use it, as calling standards become thinner. It is passable as a setup play for a later push with a decent hand, however. That is.. if you like sacrificing the value of your better hands by having your opponent fold to your monstrous bet. So I'll take that back, it's worthless there, too.

-kyo

45suited · #29 07-05-2005, 02:25 PM

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He called them all off (essentially) with Tens. Without much thought. That pretty much proves my point, I'd say.

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NYC, you're a regular on the STT forum. The point is that Corkins was unlucky that Dags had TT. The blinds were not chicken feed at this point. I don't have the exact number in front of me, but they were pretty large. Corkins was using an aggressive strategy and got caught. To say that the play was horrible is way off, IMO. Not the style of some players but not horrible either. What makes Corkins so scary is that he would make this play with MUCH better hands as well.

drewjustdrew · #30 07-05-2005, 02:28 PM

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He called them all off (essentially) with Tens. Without much thought. That pretty much proves my point, I'd say.

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NYC, you're a regular on the STT forum. The point is that Corkins was unlucky that Dags had TT. The blinds were not chicken feed at this point. I don't have the exact number in front of me, but they were pretty large. Corkins was using an aggressive strategy and got caught. To say that the play was horrible is way off, IMO. Not the style of some players but not horrible either. What makes Corkins so scary is that he would make this play with MUCH better hands as well.

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Close your mind 45, you'll get along better in this forum that way. Although your poker results will likely suffer.