Is this play routine?

JTG51 · #1 08-05-2004, 07:26 PM

.50/1 PLO. The preflop raiser starts the hand with $40, SB has $39, and I have them both easily covered.

UTG folds. UTG+1 raises to $3. MP and LP call. I call on the button with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB calls and BB folds. Five to the flop.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

It's checked to me and I bet the pot, $15.20. Only the SB calls.

Turn: [A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He checks, I check.

River: [A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

He goes all in for $20.80 and I fold.

Is this routine? Anything I should have done differently? Any other lines of play to consider?

sahaguje · #2 08-06-2004, 06:56 AM

It is not routine, but I dont think it is a bad play. Anyway, I wont have played it that way.

Flop : Ok. Now of course, he has something to pay you with, but at these stakes, it can be a good ace, 2 spades... With a bad 7, he would certainly have bet or check raised, so he can have a FH, but I dont see him with better trips.

Turn : I am ok with your play, but only if you know what you are going to do on the river. If you think you will fold for a pot bet even if you made your FH, good play, maybe a little tight. If you think you want to induce a bluff, and pay a pot bet on the river whatever the river is, except maybe an A, very good play. But know if you think, if I make a FH I pay, if i miss I fold, this is very bad poker. SB either has you beaten already with a FH, or cannot beat you if a blank hits, like it happened on the river. With better trips, he would have bet or raised on the flop or the turn.

River : as I said, it all depends what you had in mind when you checked. If you can say that even if a 9 had fallen on the river, you would have folded, then it is OK. Tight, but OK.

Hope it helped. I hope you thought that, because your check on the turn really says "ok I am beaten, you can bet with confidence". Perfect situation to induce a bluff, or to escape a good hand that you think is beaten from the start.

See you

sahaguje

Zag · #3 08-06-2004, 11:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn : I am ok with your play, but only if you know what you are going to do on the river. If you think you will fold for a pot bet even if you made your FH, good play, maybe a little tight. If you think you want to induce a bluff, and pay a pot bet on the river whatever the river is, except maybe an A, very good play. But know if you think, if I make a FH I pay, if i miss I fold, this is very bad poker. SB either has you beaten already with a FH, or cannot beat you if a blank hits, like it happened on the river. With better trips, he would have bet or raised on the flop or the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was brilliant. In spite of the fact that I think I could teach you a bit about math and poker theory, I am sure you could teach me a lot more about poker.

My thinking, when reading the original post, was that the check-call on the flop was kind of scary. What could the other player have that he would check-call with? I liked the check behind on the turn and the fold on the river, but I am sure that I would have decided to call on the river if I had filled up. I hadn't thought about the fact that filling up on the river does not matter at all. Either he had a better full house than I can make, or he didn't and can't beat me.

Thanks for the food for thought.

JTG51 · #4 08-06-2004, 04:00 PM

Either he had a better full house than I can make, or he didn't and can't beat me.

That's an interesting thought, but I'm not convinced that it's true. If he has a 7, he probably has me out kicked, and I don't think it's a sure thing that he would have bet the flop with a 7.

JTG51 · #5 08-06-2004, 04:04 PM

I hope you thought that, because your check on the turn really says "ok I am beaten, you can bet with confidence". Perfect situation to induce a bluff, or to escape a good hand that you think is beaten from the start.

Yes, I realized that I could be inducing a bluff, but I decided on the flop that he probably had me beaten. However, I would have called if I made a full house. Don't you think it's at least possible that he has a 7 that has me out kicked but no full house? I thought the chance that he did, plus the chance that my hand was best anyway, would make calling a river bet if I filled up the correct play.

sahaguje · #6 08-07-2004, 04:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I decided on the flop that he probably had me beaten. However, I would have called if I made a full house.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is your choice... And I dont think it is a bad one, since a lot of times, you will beat him. But I think 90% of this times you would have beaten him without filling your full house. I just cant imagine a players slowplaying a 7Q, 7J or 7T on a 77A flop with 2 spades, and a K turn. He acted very weak, so either he as a hand that does not mind giving not only 1, but 2 free cards, or he has very little and thinks you bluffed on the flop.

Anyway, I cant convince you, it is just a matter of how you play poker. But one important thing : in such a situation, when you are checked-called on the flop, then checked to again on the turn, it is ok to take a free card, but you always should have a made plan on the river. And many times, it should involve calling even with marginal hands, cause you are very likely to be bluffed by a good player, or folding with good ones, cause your feel you are already beaten and your opponent is slowplaying a monster.

See you

sahaguje

dogsballs · #7 08-09-2004, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I realized that I could be inducing a bluff, but I decided on the flop that he probably had me beaten. However, I would have called if I made a full house. Don't you think it's at least possible that he has a 7 that has me out kicked but no full house? I thought the chance that he did, plus the chance that my hand was best anyway, would make calling a river bet if I filled up the correct play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Pay off with the full house.

If I'm your opp and have Q7xx or J7xx, I go all-in on the river. (tho I would have bet the flop already)