top two in a massive pot

hutz · #1 08-01-2004, 01:12 PM

Loose, mostly passive Party table. I'm working off the most recent bonus by slumming in the $2/4 tables and getting my ass handed to me (ultimately -50BB in a one-hour, four-table session) while playing well. This is a "fun" hand from the session. I have no real reads on anyone, but CO appears to be somewhat sane and the other players are playing like typical low-limit Party weirdos.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: hutz is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, hutz raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, hutz caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (28.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, hutz bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, BB calls, hutz caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (28.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, hutz bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO caps, BB calls, hutz ???

jt1 · #2 08-01-2004, 01:16 PM

If the pot size given is accurate then you have the odds to call. Fold the river unimproved. (I, personally, couldn't do this)

hutz · #3 08-01-2004, 01:23 PM

Assuming I'm behind in the hand, what makes you think all four of my outs are clean? If you called the turn, would you really advocate folding unimproved for another bet? For two bets?

chesspain · #4 08-01-2004, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming I'm behind in the hand, what makes you think all four of my outs are clean?

[/ QUOTE ]

All of your K outs are clean. The only way your Q outs are bad is if someone has KK or AA.

hutz · #5 08-01-2004, 01:43 PM

All of your K outs are clean.

They're all clean for a winner, with the KK exception you noted, but are they all still available?

What does AA have to do with my Q outs being clean/available? I presume you meant "QQ."

chesspain · #6 08-01-2004, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What does AA have to do with my Q outs being clean/available? I presume you meant "QQ."

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh...I somehow created a confabulation where I combined your hand with the board, which then would make three queens if another queen fell, given AA the better queens' boat. Since that hardly ever happens, never mind then. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

adanthar · #7 08-01-2004, 01:56 PM

Someone probably has 55 and if MP1 sucks, he has AJ. CO, however, definitely has at least one and probably two of your outs unless you're lucky enough for him to be overplaying aces or AK. Then again, a draw could cap for value here...

The right play is probably to fold, but I'm not sure if I could make myself do that. I am sure you have 4 outs tops, though.

hutz · #8 08-02-2004, 09:31 PM

Here's the whole hand history. Gawd, I love Party players!

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: hutz is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, hutz raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, hutz caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Flop: (28.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, hutz bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO 3-bets, BB calls, hutz caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (28.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, hutz bets, UTG+2 raises, MP1 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO caps, BB calls, hutz folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (49.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, CO calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 53.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB shows Qs 6s (two pair, queens and fives).
UTG+2 shows Ah Ks (two pair, kings and fives).
MP1 shows 9h Js (straight, king high).
CO shows Tc Kd (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 53.25 BB. 

As my comments in response to various posters' thoughts indicated, I figured that I had to fill up to win and that not all of my outs were live. Heck, I had capped consecutive streets and led the turn only to find it capped back to me. I figured at least one, and perhaps two, of my kings were in the hands of at least one of my opponents. I was right. I was drawing to two outs on the turn. Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond to the initial post.