Debunking the "Blame Nagin and Blanco" Talking Points

[BCPVP]

The title of this thread is false. The article debunks ONE "talking point" (which I've neither used nor heard of) not a greater amount suggested by the title.

[SheetWise]

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The title of this thread is false. The article debunks ONE "talking point" (which I've neither used nor heard of) not a greater amount suggested by the title.


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I can't even find the ONE. Read the Governors declaration for specifics.

[4_2_it]

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It has every thing to do with your points. The Feds had the ultimate responsibility to make sure things were running right per DHS 2004 SOP.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is pure bunk! Post a link to this protocol. I am certain it is not applicable to hurricane evacautions. I have lived in Florida 37 years and seen my share of these things, and it is the locals authorities who run the show.

Unless the President was going to invoke the Insurrection Act (which Dems would have crucified him for) and take over all state operations from a democrat mayor and governor, the federal government had no jurisdiction in this matter and can only act upon the request of the state governor. The governor of LA is the commander in chief of the LA National Guard.

The feds have their share of blame in this matter, but the lion's share belongs to the elected officials in LA who let their constituents down and now need to blame the feds to stay in office.

[jaxmike]

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It has every thing to do with your points. The Feds had the ultimate responsibility to make sure things were running right per DHS 2004 SOP.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is pure bunk! Post a link to this protocol. I am certain it is not applicable to hurricane evacautions. I have lived in Florida 37 years and seen my share of these things, and it is the locals authorities who run the show.

Unless the President was going to invoke the Insurrection Act (which Dems would have crucified him for) and take over all state operations from a democrat mayor and governor, the federal government had no jurisdiction in this matter and can only act upon the request of the state governor. The governor of LA is the commander in chief of the LA National Guard.

The feds have their share of blame in this matter, but the lion's share belongs to the elected officials in LA who let their constituents down and now need to blame the feds to stay in office.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the blame lies on the people who

1.) Built anything in New Orleans KNOWING that this would eventually happen.
2.) Failed to evacuate KNOWING that this would eventually happen.
3.) Failed to force evacuations KNOWING that this would eventually happen.

After that, the blame really doesn't matter because this could have been prevented by simply not building a city, or living in a city, in land that is below sea level and near a very hurricane friendly portion of the coastline, that is also surrounded by water...

[4_2_it]

How can you blame the people here? They live near where they work. Many had no way to get out even if they wanted to. They were ill, elderly or didn't own cars. Most didn't have money or credit cards for hotels.

People relied upon their leaders (Mayor of NO) to tell them what to do because the average person does not have access to the information that the mayor does.

Imagine if this would have happen in NYC circa 1999. Rudy Guiliani would ordered a mandatory evacuation. NYPD and FDNY would have made sure that loss of life was minimal. Of course, Rudy would have been criticized (by the same people who are criticising Bush for inaction) for invoking martial law and shooting looters.

All Roy Nagin could do was put off ordering an evacuation until it was too late and then botch the evacuation by not following the plan.

[cadillac1234]

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[ QUOTE ]
It has every thing to do with your points. The Feds had the ultimate responsibility to make sure things were running right per DHS 2004 SOP.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is pure bunk! Post a link to this protocol. I am certain it is not applicable to hurricane evacautions. I have lived in Florida 37 years and seen my share of these things, and it is the locals authorities who run the show.

Unless the President was going to invoke the Insurrection Act (which Dems would have crucified him for) and take over all state operations from a democrat mayor and governor, the federal government had no jurisdiction in this matter and can only act upon the request of the state governor. The governor of LA is the commander in chief of the LA National Guard.

The feds have their share of blame in this matter, but the lion's share belongs to the elected officials in LA who let their constituents down and now need to blame the feds to stay in office.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlib...IMS-90-web.pdf

Look on about page 37 through about 80 and in the appendix there are huge charts on decision and the seting up of multi-agency coordination via DHS and FEMA.

The protocol for requesting federal aid in any form was properly requested by the LA Gov as in the OP article.

Also do a google search on National Incident Response under the Stafford Act for more information. As of March 2004, DHS/FEMA became responsible for establishing the command structure.

The Insurrection Act does not apply in anyway to this scenario since active military are involved in perfectly legal rescue and relief roles.

[4_2_it]

After further reflection I agree that the DHS should have taken over this effort AFTER they determined that the local authorities responsible have failed or did not have the capabilities, which was not the case unless you consider utter stupidity to be an acceptable reasonable for DHS to step in.

I don't see how DHS could have stepped in until at least 2 days after Katrina when it evident to everyone that the authorities had lost control (I think the pictures of cops leading the looting were the final tip-off).

The LA governor has not produced any evidence that she requested aid in a timely manner. There is credible evidence from the Red Cross (an organization that is not a friend of Bush by any measure)that state officials prevented the Red Cross from setting up at the Superdome.

I'm not telling you to not blame the feds or hate on Bush, they deserve their share. The local and state authorities deserve more in this instance.

Please comment on Mayor Nagin's rationale that they could not us school buses to evacuation the poor and sick before Katrina struck because the buses did not have rest rooms! It would have been a three hour bus ride at most and there are rest areas on the interstates where the buses could have stopped. How any one can absolve this clown from his dereliction of duty is beyond me. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[cadillac1234]

While I agree that there was some really bad moves early on by local and state officials it was clear starting on August 26th that this had the very real potential to quickly overwhelm those resources. FEMA/DHS stated they were ready and had assets staged for the relief effort. This obviously was not the case. The local government also met evac goals that were introduced in disaster drills and from previous evacs.

DHS/FEMA should have established a joint command center before landfall. That way if the [censored] hit the fan they were prepared to move. This was how the ops were supposed to go per DHS/FEMA's own SOPs but this didn't even get mentioned until ex-FEMA chief Witt was brought in to advise Brown.

Blanco was clueless throughout and she should have been bipassed early on in the scenario since all the protocols handing over authority to the Feds had been signed.

[SheetWise]

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Actually, the blame lies on the people who

1.) Built anything in New Orleans KNOWING that this would eventually happen.
2.) Failed to evacuate KNOWING that this would eventually happen.
3.) Failed to force evacuations KNOWING that this would eventually happen.

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Correction --

Actually, the blame lies on the people who

1.) Failed to take precautions KNOWING that this would eventually happen.
2.) Failed to evacuate KNOWING that this was about to happen.
3.) Failed to force evacuations KNOWING that it was imminent.

[pankwindu]

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I don't see how DHS could have stepped in until at least 2 days after Katrina when it evident to everyone that the authorities had lost control (I think the pictures of cops leading the looting were the final tip-off).

[/ QUOTE ]

The Department of Homeland Security implemented the National Response Plan in 2004. According to the plan, the federal government has an obligation to respond to catastrophic events proactively.

Here are three statements from the NRP's Catastrophic Incident Annex:

"Federal support must be provided in a timely manner to save lives, prevent human suffering, and mitigate severe damage. This may require mobilizing and deploying assets before they are requested via normal NRP protocols."

"A catastrophic incident has unique dimensions/characteristics requiring that response plans/strategies be flexible enough to effectively address emerging needs and requirements."

"All Federal departments, agencies, and organizations (e.g., the American Red Cross) assigned primary or supporting ESF responsibilities immediately begin implementation of those responsibilities, as appropriate or when directed by the President"

These are isolated statements, but a full perusal of the NRP makes it clear that the federal government is authorized to act in extreme situations without waiting for the red tape to clear. In fact, the final point quoted above specifically authorizes the President to order federal agencies into action if the situation warrants.

Requests from local or state officials are not necessary. There is no excuse for any delay in proactive action.

The NRP is located on the Department of Homeland Security's web site:
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlib...P_FullText.pdf


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The LA governor has not produced any evidence that she requested aid in a timely manner. There is credible evidence from the Red Cross (an organization that is not a friend of Bush by any measure)that state officials prevented the Red Cross from setting up at the Superdome.

[/ QUOTE ]

On Friday, August 26, Blanco declared a state of emergency and mobilized the local National Guard. On Sunday, August 28, Blanco issued a formal Stafford Act request for federal aid, indicating that "effective response will be beyond the capabilities of the State and the affected local governments and that supplementary Federal assistance will be necessary". That same day, President Bush issued a disaster declaration for Louisiana, stating "We'll do everything in our power to help the people and communities affected by this storm."

Even though, as shown above, they don't need a request to act proactively, it's ridiculously clear that they did have timely requests and even promised to provide help.

See:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/26/tropical.weather/
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20...%20Request.pdf
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/2...ina/index.html


Shame on state officials for preventing the Red Cross. There is plenty of blame to go around at all levels in this incident, and I am upset at everyone who screwed up.

However, I personally am most upset at the Federal government, and President Bush in particular, for numerous reasons.

One, Nagin and Blanco are not my mayor and governor, but Bush is my President, with a Constitutional duty to ensure domestic tranquility and provide for the common defense. The Federal government has more resources than any one state or locality; they're the ones best equipped to handle such exceptional events. If a dirty bomb was to hit my city, the message I have gotten from the Federal government is "you're on your own for a week or so, good luck".

Two, the Bush administration have positioned themselves as the "safety" administration. They formed the DHS, and their own official plan specifically authorizes them to take proactive action in both terrorist attacks and catastrophic events. Failure to do so in this case is failure to perform their duty, as they themselves promised they would. How is anyone else in the country supposed to feel safe?

Three, Bush and key members of his administration didn't even bother to prioritize a Cat 5 hurricane threatening a 3-state area over their own vacations. Bush stayed on vacation until Wednesday. Cheney vacationed all week. Rumsfeld vacationed Monday. Rice vacationed Monday through Thursday. All this while thousands of American citizens died waiting for food and water. Even if you are heartless enough to excuse this behavior on humanitarian grounds, you cannot deny that they still failed to perform their actual jobs, per Constitutional duty and DHS policy.

See:
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...it-online.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0125-515h.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0050830-1.html
http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/...;c=news_photos
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...3101127_5.html
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1001055561
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-292600c.html