The bad side of it all...

[4thstreetpete]

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Greetings,

Thank you for the response as I find this conversation highly enjoyable and really empathize with the challenges you are confronting. I just think it's easy to get lose sight of what is the ultimate challenge. My personal belief is that your financial situation, while a very important aspect of life, is not the most important challenge for you. Rather, I think you need to unlearn some deeply held irrational ideas.

I have a friend named Jim who seems to have an ideology that is almost identical to yours. His belief is that money is life's best painkiller and the only ticket to happiness. You see, he's miserable a good deal of the time because he clings to this ideology that wealth is essentially happiness. Hence, when he hits it big on video poker or makes a fortitous trade on the penny stocks he's elated and at least outwardly excited. However, during the more common down periods (and he's not a wealthy man) he's invariably sad and irritable. In my opinion, his problem is identical to yours: the ideology that having money is a necessary condition of being happy. Now if I try to tell him you can be happy with little or no money he scoffs and makes a cynical wisecrack. And yes, in our society money is a barometer of happiness for many people. Perhaps they have unfortunately learned this from their parents or the media.

To me, it doesn't matter where they learned this crazy belief. I to have held this same position. The problem is that it didn't serve me well. For when you are not monied you are miserable. Also, I find the position logically untenable because there are many counterexamples to the argument. Happiness can be obtained through other mediums be it learning new information, appreciating nature, meaningful relationships, helping others, a hobby, a political cause, self-improvement and a host of other pursuits.

A little bit about myself and my own challenges (which parallel yours to some extent). Back in 2002 I moved to Michigan (700 miles from home) with a family promise that they'd take care of all my medical bills. I needed extensive inpatient treatment for intractible head pain and neck problems. I spent a month in the hospital and required over one thousand dollars a month just on medicine alone. Factor in diagnostic tests and doctor visits and I was spending $2,500 or more a month. I did not have prescription drug insurance to make matters worse. I was living in a ant-infested $495 a month studio apartment in a new state. I had no social supports and my credit cards were being maxed out ($15,000 in debt). Then all of a sudden my family decides they can no longer help me (even though they have the resources) with the medical bills. I had no car, no job, and my body was mired in severe physical pain. I contemplated suicide several times but then despite all my misery I had a revelation: people and things do not disturb us, rather we disturb ourselves by believing they can disturb us. For example, I realized my beliefs about being poor caused me to be upset, not actually being poor.

It's hard to understand this because it seems so counterintuitive. Most people think they are happy or sad because something 'good' or 'bad' happened. In reality, it's our beliefs that determine how we ultimately respond, not what actually happened. For example, two airline workers get laid off and one is hopelessly depressed while the other is seemingly unaffected (or even upbeat). The reason is they have divergent beliefs about job loss. One might think 'If I lose this job I'll be ruined!' Yet the other might believe, 'At least I'll have some time to myself and plus I can probably find a more meaningful job anyway.'

I'm not saying your undesireable economic situation isn't extremely distressing to you. I'm sure you believe it's unfair, wrong, cruel, and a seemingly insurmountable obstacle to finding happiness. And I'm sure you believe your ex is evil incarnate. However, I believe you and your ex (as well as the rest of us) are just hopelessly flawed human beings who invariably do stupid and irrational things at times. I think your demonizing her isn't going to help you one bit but only result in more anger.

But most importantly, I think you need to work on thinking more rationally (who doesn't). I guess you already had one powerful insight: that it's rational to ask for help (although you've probably learned this isn't necessarily the best forum based on the taunting and encouragement to commit suicide). Of course, what constitutes 'help' isn't always so clear. I think many people become suicidal because they starting thinking in absolute terms and set up these false alternatives of 'either or.' For example, either I'll steal money from my mother or I'll be suicidally depressed (as you mentioned). Of course, there are thousands of other options you haven't mentioned. Unfortunately, most probably aren't the most desireable ones but you admittedly aren't in an ideal situation. You still do have choices and the capacity to improve your lot. More importantly, you also have ability to change your dysfunctional and rigid ideologies, which if left unchallenged will incontrovertibly result in a lifetime of similar folly and inexplicable misery.

Hope you're feeling better,

JeffreyREBT

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Hey Jeff, what an excellent post. Why you decided to write this heartfelt thought out reply to this silly thread is beyond me but this is one of the best posts I have ever read. This is one of the few post that I've felt compelled to save. Thanks for posting and hope things are great for you now.

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Hey Jeff, what an excellent post. Why you decided to write this heartfelt thought out reply to this silly thread is beyond me but this is one of the best posts I have ever read. This is one of the few post that I've felt compelled to save. Thanks for posting and hope things are great for you now.



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Why is it a silly thread? The responses I've recieved (mainly privately), have really helped out, and if even one other person reads it that may be in a similar situation to me and it helps, then that is great.

BTW - for such a silly thread, you've got 3 or 4 posts in it already, so you're obviously interested in it, even if you are just using it for comic relief (which is your right).

1. You have serious mental health issues.

2. You have inadequate support infrastructure if the stopgap between you and a .44 mag bullet in the grape is an anonymous poker chat board

3. Your financial problems really arent that big of a deal

4. Your self-pity is wretched. Get over yourself. But if you do decide to end it all, just make sure you dont take anybody with you, and remember to set down some plastic tarp so you dont ruin the rug.

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1. You have serious mental health issues.

2. You have inadequate support infrastructure if the stopgap between you and a .44 mag bullet in the grape is an anonymous poker chat board

3. Your financial problems really arent that big of a deal

4. Your self-pity is wretched. Get over yourself. But if you do decide to end it all, just make sure you dont take anybody with you, and remember to set down some plastic tarp so you dont ruin the rug.

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1. No [censored]?

2. Better to talk to someone, whether it be an anonymous chat board, a hotline, etc - than putting aforementioned slug in the brain.

3. I'm glad that you know enough about my situation to make this assumption. Are you perhaps a financial advisor or investment banker?

4. Actually, if I'd pitied myself that badly, I'd probably already be gone. The fact that I care enough about myself to try to talking to people makes me feel a lot less wretched.

And don't worry, if I decide to take anyone with me, I'll make sure it's you, prick.

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And don't worry, if I decide to take anyone with me, I'll make sure it's you, prick.

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LOL

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And don't worry, if I decide to take anyone with me, I'll make sure it's you, prick.

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LOL

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Yes, I may still be [censored] in the brain, but I can still make people laugh from time-to-time. Really starting to post here has made me realize that maybe I'm not worthless, and that after a few more months I won't be broke either. Maybe I can actually reclaim some poker thunder and make a life for myself. After all, look at Mikey The Mouth, he went from prison to instant millionaire in less than a year and 6000 entrants. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Greetings Pete,

Thank you for the kind words and flattering compliment. I suppose there are several reasons why I felt compelled to offer my vantage point to the original poster. I have a sincere belief that Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy (a modern day rendition of stoic philosphy) has real powerful utility. The original poster's crisis represented an excellent opportunity to illustrate my philosophy and possibly offer some measure of help.

I generally take pleasure in the ability to help others if possible. And I legitimately believe the original poster can be helped. If he radically changes his distorted and goofy thinking I believe it's nearly guaranteed that he will minimize his misery and have more desireable outcomes.

I am somewhat skeptical that he is receptive to change as he persistently clings to his irrational beliefs and strongly insists that other people are responsible for his current emotional turmoil and financial hardship. Neverthless, I still benefit because maybe some day he will remember this thread and find a helpful real world application. Beyond the satisfaction of helping others, I also remind myself of the power of rational thinking when explaining its real world applications. It's easy for me to become complacent and let irrational thoughts and behaviors insidiously creep back into my life. This dialogue reminds me of my own past and the negative consequences I suffer when I allow myself to awfulize, castrophize or engage in 'must'urbation.

And I am doing much better now than before in my personal life. I wouldn't strongly espouse REBT (Rational-Emotive Behavioral Therapy) if I wasn't positively impacted. About three years ago I started utilizing the concepts and today I'm in a much different position. Here is a short list of improvements: lost 45lbs, have held a full-time job for 2 years, went off disability, took better care of my physical health, gained enough self-confidence to start dating, went from 15K in debt to 5k in assets, bought a used car, and MOST importantly became a winning poker player ;-)

JeffreyREBT

Here's an idea. Try to build a large RB check next month.

1) Scrounge around your house to find a bunch of items to hawk on E-bay. In addition, neglect one or two of your less important bills, make the calls in advance to let them know you will be late this month etc.. The goal is to get 4 or 500 bucks together.

2) Tell your employer about your GF leaving and that you really need some a little time to collect yourself. 1 Week. (Hopefully you have a salary job, if not use vacation, personal days, or try to get an advance on next years time off due to the severity of the situation.)

3) This week off you will be 10-16 hrs a day multitabling the low limits. You will probably need to play weak tight to avoid the variance monster. The goal is to build the RB check.

4) After this week, hopefully you will have won money in addition to creating a little chunk to look forward to in a few weeks. Pay the late bills. Do some whoring or more RB building if theres anything left.

This is obviously not a solution to all the problems going on, but I find in times of emotional distress, having goals, & something to look forward to always helps. Also getting out of your day job for a week will help break up the monotany, which in itself can be depressing.

A chapter of your life has just ended with rather nasty conclusion. The good news is there's a brand new one beginning! You are in the process of developing a new you. How you build him is up to you.


Good Luck
pokerchip888

It is your choice, period.

Your life is the consequence of your choices. If you haven't figured that out, you must be a loser.

You ask for attention, that is the reason you post here; not for help, as you constantly fool yourself by ignoring other's advice and still think you are smarter than them.
Being I-want-to-kill-myself does not improve your social status, and give you any privilige to sound like a arrogant rampallion, yet still want people to pay attention and listen to your bosh.

Whether you continue to live or not has nothing to do with the people here, people die everyday, life goes on. You should have a modicum of gratitute that most people still treat you with respect and even spend their time to reply to your silly post.

A billion people are living in the condition worse than you. If you can't bear with the pressure of life, if you don't want to stand up and start your life over, fine, that is your choice. Not everyone is a winner.

So I suggest you go to your mirror, look straight to that guy, mano-to-mano for 5 minutes, if you still have a slightest liking of that fellow, life goes on. If you don't, and you don't give a [censored], no one else will.

You make the choice.

Jeez, some of you people are overdoing the 'deal-with-it-toughen-up-and-btw-stfu' line.

Its not a crime to need a little attention, we are human not mineral. especially if your going through life changing [censored].

Yeah, he needs to learn to deal. He will. Do you want to help or not?

I dont beleive anything good is achieved by telling him to look in the mirror and end it if he doesnt like what he sees because nobody will ever give a [censored] about him anyway. Thats not even true. If that were true I wouldnt be here myself as I have gone through the same. It sounds like tough love but its just thoughtless, intelectually lazy posturing.

I dont disagree with you that it boils down to a choice and its his choice and he will suffer or succeed because of it, its just the tone of some of the posts that I have an issue with.