Correct Flop Play in Big Pot?

#1 12-13-2005, 08:26 PM

Please review this hand. I'll preface by saying the table was very loose and passive (many LPCs).

What do you think of my call on the flop? The BB bet was strange I thought. With two overcards and great pot odds, laying down had to be wrong here I thought, but I also thought calling was a bit of weak play, and it could easily get raised behind me. A raise also crossed my mind, but the field was cold calling liberally and there was still the intial raiser to act.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, CO (poster) calls, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, BB folds.

River: (13.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

bottomset · #2 12-13-2005, 08:31 PM

I fold preflop

flop call is pretty thin

turn and river are good

AlmightyJay · #3 12-13-2005, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Please review this hand. I'll preface by saying the table was very loose and passive (many LPCs).

What do you think of my call on the flop? The BB bet was strange I thought. With two overcards and great pot odds, laying down had to be wrong here I thought, but I also thought calling was a bit of weak play, and it could easily get raised behind me. A raise also crossed my mind, but the field was cold calling liberally and there was still the intial raiser to act.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, CO (poster) calls, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, BB folds.

River: (13.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and flop are pretty bad. I'm folding this UTG in just about every game. On the flop, you're getting 13.5:1, but what do you have? Two overcards, no draw. The board is fairly coordinated. Normally you'd give yourself 1.5 outs for each over card, but here you have to discount more because the J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] aren't great cards. I think two outs total would be generous. Not to mention you've got the PFR behind you. This seems like an easy flop fold.

#4 12-13-2005, 08:41 PM

*grunch*

I fold this preflop because of what happened to you here--you get raised behind (often by an ace high) then when the flop comes rags you don't know what to do plus you're out of position. On the flop I'd fold again. Nice turn and river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

BBB

#5 12-13-2005, 09:09 PM

Re: Pre-flop, I was using SSHE recommendations for loose games, KJ is a limp from early position. I do agree it's very marginal hand from that position.

I suppose my decisions were influenced highly by the fact that 4 of 6 players on the flop had VP$IP of 50% plus.

#6 12-13-2005, 10:09 PM

::grunch::

Personally, I don't like playing KJo pre-flop from UTG, precisely for the reason you see here - it gets raised behind you, and you don't know if you're dominated or not. But then again, I probably play tighter than most, so feel free to ignore me here. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The flop call is fine - there are so many people at those tables who will donk out a flop bet with nothing but thin air, that I see no reason to fold, especially with that big of a pot and your overcards.

Turn and river are pretty standard.

#7 12-13-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Re: Pre-flop, I was using SSHE recommendations for loose games, KJ is a limp from early position. I do agree it's very marginal hand from that position.

I suppose my decisions were influenced highly by the fact that 4 of 6 players on the flop had VP$IP of 50% plus.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you didn't know when making the first call how many people would tag along. It could have just as easily have been - Hero calls, UTG+1 raises, 8 folds, Hero ???

Where are you finding these loose tables, btw? I've been having a hard time lately finding a $.50/$1 table with a VP$P much over 25%...

@bsolute_luck · #8 12-13-2005, 10:54 PM

entire hand: NH.

preflop is cake given table description. flop is tough, but figure we discount a tad 3.5-4 outs, we'll easily get that in implied.

Aaron W. · #9 12-13-2005, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
entire hand: NH.

preflop is cake given table description. flop is tough, but figure we discount a tad 3.5-4 outs, we'll easily get that in implied.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is fine.

The flop is just too thin because of the chance that PFR might raise and because our reverse implied odds also run high, especially if the king falls. I think this is one of those unfortunate spots where you don't know what's going to happen, and it's probably safer to just get out.

#10 12-13-2005, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop and flop are pretty bad. I'm folding this UTG in just about every game.

[/ QUOTE ]
WHAT, really?? Here I think it is obvious but in "just about every game?"

*ah forgot this is full ring [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]