Playing suited connectors

Nikademus · #1 10-27-2005, 11:07 AM

A friend of mine and I got into a disagreement about how I played this hand.

MP2: 28 hands - VPIP: 32.14 PFR:7.14
MP3: 55 hands - VPIP: 45.45 PFR: 9.09
SB: 9 hands - VPIP: 22.22 PFR:11.11
BB: 48 hands - VPIP: 41.67 PFR:10.42

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

The first discussion was about my pre-flop play. He insists I should have raised, to limit the field. I think I got to see the flop cheaply, and was hoping for a monster.

Flop: (7 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, SB 3-bets, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Great flop for me. With a flush and straight draw, I'm not going anywhere. A 6 gives me the nuts, a J gives me the ass-end of a straight, and a spade gives me the flush, but with concern.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Got the nuts, but no action. Didn't lose anyone. Please no spade...

River: (18.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, Hero ....

This is where the second issue came up. With 3 to act behind you, do you call or raise here? What will make you the most money, or are you beat here?

milesdyson · #2 10-27-2005, 11:09 AM

preflop: limiting the field from the button doesn't work too well. that said i wouldn't mind a preflop raise, but i wouldn't do it every time.

flop: raise somewhere

turn: duh

river: call

Nikademus · #3 10-27-2005, 11:16 AM

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preflop: limiting the field from the button doesn't work too well. that said i wouldn't mind a preflop raise, but i wouldn't do it every time.

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Just to increase the pot? I doubt you'd get anyone to fold.

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flop: raise somewhere

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With all the action before me, I didn't think it necessary to re-raise.

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river: call

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Call to get more money in the pot, or because you are worried about a higher flush? or both? I'm more concerned with the thinking here than the action.

#4 10-27-2005, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
preflop: limiting the field from the button doesn't work too well. that said i wouldn't mind a preflop raise, but i wouldn't do it every time.

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Just to increase the pot? I doubt you'd get anyone to fold.

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flop: raise somewhere

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With all the action before me, I didn't think it necessary to re-raise.

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river: call

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Call to get more money in the pot, or because you are worried about a higher flush? or both? I'm more concerned with the thinking here than the action.

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On the river raising is most likely going to get everyone that doesn't have a flush to fold. So you get as much (or more money) if they call one bet, and you don't get 3-bet if MP3 made a higher flush.

deception5 · #5 10-27-2005, 11:16 AM

If you raise preflop here it is not to limit the field, but rather because you have a strong multi-way hand. There are 4 limpers who are coming with you to the flop no matter what.

@bsolute_luck · #6 10-27-2005, 11:18 AM

woo hoo! i'm 3-betting that flop.

crownjules · #7 10-27-2005, 11:30 AM

Preflop: Why do you even want to limit the field here? You have a drawing hand, meaning you want as many people to pad the pot. If anything, you want to raise for value if you flop some decent draws, although 87 is close. T9 for sure.

Flop: When it comes back to you 3-bet, I'd just cap. You've got a strong draw and it's only one more SB and everyone will call it. $$$

Turn: Nothing really to say here.

River: It sure looks like MP3 has a flush, and likely a higher one than you. You don't include any AF numbers. Against an unknown who raises the 2-flush flop, c/c a turn, and then bets out on the river 3-flush, I'll call. One, you'll hopefully collect overcalls from 1 or 2 of those still to act. If you raise, you'll likely knock them out. Two, you don't expose yourself to a 3-bet if he does have a higher flush.

Nikademus · #8 10-27-2005, 11:44 AM

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River: It sure looks like MP3 has a flush, and likely a higher one than you. You don't include any AF numbers. Against an unknown who raises the 2-flush flop, c/c a turn, and then bets out on the river 3-flush, I'll call.

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Sorry, I mislabeled two players, and forgot the AF. here they are:

MP2: 50 hands - VPIP: 16.00 PFR 6.00 AF: 1.33
MP3: 28 hands - VPIP: 32.14 PFR:7.14 AF: 2.14
CO: 55 hands - VPIP: 45.45 PFR: 9.09 AF: 1.91
SB: 9 hands - VPIP: 22.22 PFR:11.11 AF: 0.60
BB: 48 hands - VPIP: 41.67 PFR:10.42 AF: 0.55

#9 10-27-2005, 11:37 AM

Not sure if I would 3 bet the flop or not, we're going to have to improve to win so I don't want to fold everyone out, but not capping when it gets back to you is criminal. Turn and river look good.

Nikademus · #10 10-27-2005, 12:07 PM

River: (18.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 22.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 3c 4h (straight, six high).
BB has Qd Td (one pair, tens).
MP3 has Th Ad (one pair, tens).
Hero has 7s 8s (flush, ten high).
Outcome: Hero wins 22.50 BB. 

So, Lessons learned:
Should have raised pre-flop
Should have capped after 3 bet came back to me
I was right to call on the river, to keep everyone in.

Thanks for your input!