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#1
11-22-2005, 11:02 PM
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How illegal is collusion?
Can you get arrested for colluding at poker? Not softplaying, but prearranged ideas/signals. What about having accomplices looking at others' hole cards?
How illegal is this, compared to let's say cheating at roulette? 
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#2
11-22-2005, 11:08 PM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
Paging Mr. Capone Jr.....Mr. Capone Jr.......
-ZEN
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#3
11-22-2005, 11:13 PM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
[ QUOTE ]
Paging Mr. Capone Jr.....Mr. Capone Jr....... -ZEN [/ QUOTE ] Mr. Capone may not be in the building at this time. May I be of assistance? Would you like someone's nuts kicked? I'd be happy to oblige. I'll be right back.
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#4
11-22-2005, 11:15 PM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
[ QUOTE ]
Can you get arrested for colluding at poker? Not softplaying, but prearranged ideas/signals. What about having accomplices looking at others' hole cards? How illegal is this, compared to let's say cheating at roulette? [/ QUOTE ] Excuse me, sir. I've been asked to kick your nuts. Would you please assume the position? Thank you. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#6
11-22-2005, 11:32 PM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
Jeeeze! You've been a 2+2'er since '02 and you truly don't know?
OK. Collusion is cheating. You've schemed to take money from other people. That's stealing. If you're caught you'll be banned from any casino I know of. For starters. If the state you're in has gambling laws in effect which allow for it, I'm sure the casino will have you arrested. Hopefully you're not considering colluding with someone.
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#7
11-22-2005, 11:57 PM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
I am not considering colluding, and I know it's against the rules. It's a theoretical question I asked out of curiosity.
When I asked it, I was thinking of how people get dealt with very harshly for cheating at things like blackjack. However, when I have heard of poker cheating, I usually hear of people just getting barred from the room, not arrested, even though they're stealing. So if that's correct, I'm sort of wondering why poker cheaters get dealt with less harshly. Is it just harder to prove? Raising the turn and folding to a reraise isn't nearly as clear as pulling bets back in roulette.
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#9
11-23-2005, 05:27 AM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
jeez, and the whole time I'm thinking DeNiro is gonna bash my right hand with a hammer. Good thing I'm lefty.
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#10
11-23-2005, 06:53 AM
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Re: How illegal is collusion?
In So. California I "generally" welcome them. They are generally not very good, from what I have seen (as opposed to what I have not seen). I didn't even look at my hole cards when 2 obvious colluders raised and reraised in 1st and 2nd position trying to steal the blinds from that spot (their faces spoke volumes). I just reraised them on the flop and they nervously folded, not knowing how to further continue their scam. They were very bad poker players, which helped. Not that I think I'm good. I was just better and more perceptive than them. They went back to Pai Gow (sp?) where they got lucky the night before as I had been told.
There was also a husband and wife team that flashed cards to each other, but when I whispered to a player next to me that I was going to call a floorperson he said not to. They were known and played so badly no flashing would help them. He was right. On the other hand, you won't be able to dectect 2 good colluders who are also decent players unless, perhaps, you play with them for some time (they don't do the obvious, a small edge in knowing each others cards helps), and in that case it will be more of a "feel" than anything provable. You just know it (or you might imagine you know it). And perhaps you won't, depending on how far they take it, which is why I'm somewhat pissed that the cameras are essentially there for decoration. The casino won't hire people good enough to spot that, and that would be hard to spot for someone capable of spotting it anyway. The colluders don't have to raise, etc. Just knowing what cards they have is enough to give them a small, but working edge. But they have to be good enough to beat the game as well. Their body language eye/contact also has to be very subtle and natural. I mean, if you pick up on bad colluders' patterns and bad play would you turn them in if you could make money off them? And if you don't pick up the good ones, you never know it. Two very good players don't even have to collude or know each other. They just look at each other and the weak or weak-tight player that's in with them and raise him out then chop the pot, or they play it out heads up with dead money in the middle. What about the meatheads who muck preflop and when 22A flops they make a big show of whispering to the player next to them (who is also out) and shaking their heads? They don't collude with anyone (at least I hope not), they are just meatheads, but K2s now knows, if he was attentive, that he need not fear A2s. "That" BS I've seen a lot of on both coasts. Floor people generally tell these people not to do that if requested by a player, but the offender is soon back at it. If the requesting player is persistent, the floor person will give the offender a warning that he will be expelled for the day. Players are usually not that persistent. A little Billy Crystal here: "I hate when that happens."
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