HU LHE Defending BB (comparison between 1/2 and 1/3 SB)

[DavidC]

Way off-topic, but...

I just read the first three pages of HPFAP's HUSH LHE section, and I have a few questions/observations at this point.

In Sklansky's scenario, he assumes that the blinds are 1/2 and that the (SB&Button) villain is raising your BB.

Observation: I found it interesting that you have to base your calling frequency on HIS pot odds, rather than on your pot/implied odds in the hand. This is really cool.

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Question #1:

Since villain gets 1:1 pot odds, Sklansky says that the villain's insta-profit line is 50% or less calling frequency from the hero.

If we were to use 1/3 blinds (3/6 LHE), then villain gets 1:0.8 pot odds, and the insta-profit line becomes 44.44% (0.8/1.8), right?

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Question #2:

Sklansky says that villain doesn't even have to bet the flop unless he hits if you call less than 33% of the time.

In a 1/3 blinds game, this becomes 30.77% (0.8/2.6) of the time, right?

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Anyways, interesting read...

[bottomset]

god I hate the 1/3 blind structure

I don't like the 2/5 one much either, but the 2/3 one is fun, 3/6 should adopt that one

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
god I hate the 1/3 blind structure

I don't like the 2/5 one much either, but the 2/3 one is fun, 3/6 should adopt that one

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... thanks for your input? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'm trying to figure out how to play short-handed, but I'm going to start with HU play, then take my baby steps into SH. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Does my math look okay so far?

[bottomset]

your math is right, but if you are starting out at HU isn't 3/6 a little high?

UB has HU tables with a .5 rake cap but it ends up being an insane amount of rake payed [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] .. something like $18/100hands at 2/4 .. I wanted to start playing HU more as well, but that is way too much

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
your math is right, but if you are starting out at HU isn't 3/6 a little high?

UB has HU tables with a .5 rake cap but it ends up being an insane amount of rake payed [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] .. something like $18/100hands at 2/4 .. I wanted to start playing HU more as well, but that is way too much

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, rakeback is pretty essential when you start playing HU (or session fees!).

The other thing is that anyone that survives for any length of time at that level of rake is going to be a fairly decent player, so your edge is pretty small.

Here's something that puzzles me, though.

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Sklansky states in HPFAP that we have to play at least 40% of hands vs an aggressive op HU who's trying to steal our bb.

How did he come up with this number?

How do we determine the right mix of re-raising vs calling hands?

--Dave.

[DavidC]

Funny thing is that I've posted this on HUSH and Poker Theory, and this is the only response I've gotten so far. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(huge stereotype alert)

People on other forums seem to be devoted to making money at their given form of poker, and thus they seem to strive for knowledge of what to do, rather than why to do it, and these kinds of threads don't get too much attention.

In closing, I love the micros forum!

--Dave.

[itsmesteve]

the 40% is basically an estimate, i believe.

DS & MM point out that your opponenet will be showing a profit by raising everytime if you call <50%. they also say that, with position, he's obviously entitled to show a profit. they do the math to show that 33% is to little to call - you need to play more.

I think a MAJOR componenet to this part of the book is that you MUST RERAISE FREQUENTLY. this should cut down the amount of raises your opponent puts in, slowing him down. Once he's slowed down, you certainly don't want to call half your hands, as he'll be ahead more often if he's raising say 75% instead of 100%.

In terms of what to reraise, i remember somewhere in the 2+2 cannon reading that you want to reraise your best and worst hands. (it may've been in a HOH book?) maybe somthing like top 20% and bottom 20% of your calling hands, so you're calling 24% and raising 16%. this may be too much, i'm not really sure. the reason to raise the worse hands is to try to end it early when you're OOP.

I've kind of sprinkled in some NL stuff from Harrington into this, but it seems to apply.

I think the take home point is to not allow yourself to be run over, and to let your opponent know that he can't raise your blind with immunity.

hope this is even remotely clear/helpful

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]

DS & MM

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, I just want to say that I've been looking for a way to write this without writing "S&M" for a long time. I'm using "DS & MM" in the future, for sure!

Okay, reading the rest of your post now...

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
the 40% is basically an estimate, i believe.

DS & MM point out that your opponenet will be showing a profit by raising everytime if you call <50%. they also say that, with position, he's obviously entitled to show a profit. they do the math to show that 33% is to little to call - you need to play more.

I think a MAJOR componenet to this part of the book is that you MUST RERAISE FREQUENTLY. this should cut down the amount of raises your opponent puts in, slowing him down. Once he's slowed down, you certainly don't want to call half your hands, as he'll be ahead more often if he's raising say 75% instead of 100%.

In terms of what to reraise, i remember somewhere in the 2+2 cannon reading that you want to reraise your best and worst hands. (it may've been in a HOH book?) maybe somthing like top 20% and bottom 20% of your calling hands, so you're calling 24% and raising 16%. this may be too much, i'm not really sure. the reason to raise the worse hands is to try to end it early when you're OOP.

I've kind of sprinkled in some NL stuff from Harrington into this, but it seems to apply.

I think the take home point is to not allow yourself to be run over, and to let your opponent know that he can't raise your blind with immunity.

hope this is even remotely clear/helpful

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your help, man.

I'm not sure that i'm comfortable with reraising with my "worst hands" (I assume you mean worst in the calling range), because in LHE you're not going to be able to remove your opponent from the pot by doing something like this.

[DavidC]

My problem with the "estimate" theory for 40% is that even if it IS an estimate, there has to be a mathematical way to figure out how often we should be calling vs re-raising, in order to minimize our opponent's profit.

It would probably have something to do with how often he raises and what the rake structure is like.