PP 20/40 - KK hand

Dazarath · #1 11-17-2005, 04:38 AM

From the few hands I have on BB, he's a fish. Plus, cold-calling 2 more in the BB usually screams fish. I believe MP3 is a 2+2er, but I'm not 100% sure. For this hand, I am not worried about BB beating me; I'm more worried about what MP3 has.

First question, should I have 3-bet the flop?

Second question, should I have folded the turn? I was thinking that maybe MP3 knew he had BB beat and could push me off my hand. But I also knew that it'd be expensive to pay to find out.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.83 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds?

CardSharpCook · #2 11-17-2005, 04:52 AM

yeah. I've given up on an overpair many times, but the 3-4 times I folded the best hand still rankle me. I fold this. If MP3 has a Jack/boat it is time for him to be raising it. Add to that the bet out by the fish. He may be a fish, but he would also do this if he has a jack.

Dazarath · #3 11-17-2005, 04:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He may be a fish, but he would also do this if he has a jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have this policy where I assume that any 30+ VPIP betting or check-raising the flop does not have the trips. So far, I've been correct a huge majority of the time. There could be an argument made for selective memory playing a part here, but whatever. I'm more worried about the TAG. On one hand, I don't want to pay him off drawing almost dead. On the other hand, he's able to put me on a hand and play accordingly. He's going to be smart enough to think past "I have trips, need to slowplay flop, raise turn".

flawless_victory · #4 11-17-2005, 05:03 AM

i like all options besides fold.

CardSharpCook · #5 11-17-2005, 05:56 AM

Ok, I am MP3. I raised PF with XX and got 3bet, but didn't cap. I like the flop enough to stick around for the turn for 1 bet. Donkey bets into me. What do I know about the guy who 3bet me? He's a TAG, and he knows I'm a TAG. He can't have a Jack (unless he has 2 Jacks). No way he 3bets with a Jack in his hand (unless it is 2 jacks). OK, I'm likely ahead of 3bettor with my pair. But what does donkey have? Could have a 5, could have a 6, could have diamonds, could be bluffing, could have a jack. If I raise here, TAG should fold. He may not fold AA/KK, but he folds everything else and usually folds AA/KK.

OR

I'm MP3. I got AJ. I love the flop, but I know TAG. If I check to him on the turn, he WILL bet, and I can get him and maybe the donkey for 2 bets on the turn. That's much better than 2 bets on the flop. Donkey bets the turn. Damn. OK, Tag's folding most of his hands here, but the donkey might call down. Hell, mabye I'll get lucky and TAG will call down with AA-QQ. Time to raise.

I think that scenario 2 is much more common. But scenario 1 is certainly possible.

#6 11-17-2005, 06:13 AM

You played the hand well. I dont think the fish has a jack, given the way he played his hand, but its still possible, but when the tagish player coldcalls the fish's checkraise when he's not closing the action, this screams trip jacks. So to answer your question, 1) dont 3 bet the flop since MP3 has trip Jacks, and 2) fold the turn cuz MP3 has trip jacks. You played the hand very well.

veganmav · #7 11-17-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i like all options besides fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mind elaborating?

CardSharpCook · #8 11-17-2005, 02:37 PM

I misread the action. Or at least forgot the action when I wrote my reply.

Dazarath · #9 11-17-2005, 04:01 PM

The TAG called 2 cold on the flop and raised the turn. As a standard play, that screams of a J. On the other hand, if he knows I probably don't have a J and he has the fish beat, then it's a great play to make.

Jeffage · #10 11-17-2005, 04:26 PM

One of them has a jack on that board most of the time since there are no other draws and you were checkraised and solid player called two cold. I wouldn't plan on putting in any more money after this flop action (esp. considering the good player is taking this heat).

Jeff