I am an awful player, plz berate me

[silkyslim]

Pf raiser is a TAG, gaybetter on turn is a rock. All streets need advice. This may be standard but i didnt feel right about it.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

[soweak.]

Consider 3-betting pre-flop. Once it's checked to you it's alright to bet on the flop as well. MP2 can have a wider range of hands he's opening with, including pairs lower than your own.

[hobbsmann]

I 3-bet preflop. Otherwise I don't you see you being ahead, or your draw being good enough, the way the hand played out and thus the turn fold is fine.

[callmedonnie]

i don't think it is all that bad. UTG could very possibly have qj or j10 or 55. If you bet in position on flop you may be able to take this one down, unless of course he has the set. Anyway, I don't think this is that bad, nor do I think that playing these situations this way will terribly effect your winnings.

[sy_or_bust]

If you have rocks limping in front of you, you should especially want to 3-bet preflop.

[W. Deranged]

Let's try three-bet pre-flop here.

Your hand is good and it would rule if you can get the limpers to dump there hands and provide some dead money. You're in position too so that's nice.

[PTjvs]

You can 3bet if you want, but I wouldnt advise it.

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is good and it would rule if you can get the limpers to dump there hands and provide some dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the a huge pipe dream. Realistically at 2/4, you can expect every limper to cold call 2 coming back. Your hand may have a VERY slight equity edge preflop, and if you are raising this is why. You certainly arent raising in hopes that anyone will fold preflop. As is, the flop was very ugly, and SOMEONE hit a piece of it. If you bet the flop, you are simply hoping for free turn + river to spike your set; you are almost never ahead on this flop.

nh

jvs

Pocket underpair with 2 overcards on the flop is the best hand 52% of the time and has a win rate of 75% (when it is best hand on the flop), which means that you can can expect to win 39% of the time overall (.52*.75=.39). Add in the 3 diamonds, and your win rate has dropped even more.

So, I would have folded here too.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
You can 3bet if you want, but I wouldnt advise it.

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is good and it would rule if you can get the limpers to dump there hands and provide some dead money.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the a huge pipe dream. Realistically at 2/4, you can expect every limper to cold call 2 coming back. Your hand may have a VERY slight equity edge preflop, and if you are raising this is why. You certainly arent raising in hopes that anyone will fold preflop. As is, the flop was very ugly, and SOMEONE hit a piece of it. If you bet the flop, you are simply hoping for free turn + river to spike your set; you are almost never ahead on this flop.

nh

jvs

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right that we won't encourage all that many folds, but if that is the case it is often because our opponents are way to loose and will be calling with inferior hands.

A three-bet has a ton of good things about it, and it's not entirely necessary to know which one upon which we are capitalizing at the time. If we raise and get cold-calls from weak hands, cool. Our raise if for value. If we encourage some folds, we increase our overlay by creating dead money. Even if we get two cold-calls from hands that merit being in the hand, we are never in that bad shape in a four-way field even if we're up against overpairs. The only really horrible situation is when we manage to isolate against a bigger pair, but we are in position, have set outs, and should be able to make good enough decisions post-flop that we won't get killed.

So, basically, a three-bet here can never be that bad and can often be quite good. So let's try it.

[fizzleboink]

I just wanted to add that UTG+1 could have been trying to check-raise MP2 with a good ace (like AJ since he's a rock) since MP2 was the pre-flop raiser.