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  #1  
Old 12-27-2005, 06:21 PM
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Default QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

I apologize if I posted this in the wrong forum. I wasn't sure if this belonged in the micro limits forum or this one since it was a 6 max table.

Anyhoo, I'm looking for comments on my turn fold, should I have just called down? Raise?

SB is a TAG player while BB is TP PF, and LP on the flop.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Should I have raised PF? I'm fresh to 6 max and have basically been basing my PF strategy on the SSH PF Tight game starting hands (mid, late and blinds).

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

With TP and a gutshot straight draw, I liked my hand and felt it was good for a raise, however SB's 3-bet into me set off some alarms. I thought he might have flopped the straight here, what else would he 3-bet with?

Turn: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero folds.

I'm not sure what BB has here, he could been on a FD or OESD, I chose to fold here fearing I was already beat. Had it been HU I would have called the turn and the river to see a showdown.
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Old 12-28-2005, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

Bump, comments anyone?
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

You're opening the hand, and you have the button, and there are fresh blinds to steal. Easy raise.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he might have flopped the straight here, what else would he 3-bet with?


[/ QUOTE ]
Considering you didnt raise PF, he could have a variety of two pairs here, and feels like charging your possible flush draw. Your raise to BB's bet may look like you want a free card(heh), which rings the bell for SB to protect his hand.

Just my .50 cents...(that i gain when im in SB and you limp QJ)
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:09 AM
aLOWdAkING aLOWdAkING is offline
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

Open-raise preflop, entire hand plays different.

I'd probably call down though.
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:24 AM
MattC MattC is offline
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

lots of draw and 2 pair out there. I think I call down.
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

[ QUOTE ]
lots of draw and 2 pair out there. I think I call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty obvious to raise if you put them on draws, pretty obvious to get out if you are against two pair. Which is it?
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 06:32 AM
MattC MattC is offline
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

Why obvious to get out or raise? I dont like raising because we could very well be behind but i also think the collection of the facts that we can outdraw 2 pair, that he has a draw, pair + draw, orthat hes overplaying something like top pair weaker kicker makes it a call down.

Of course, i'm very willing to re evauluate based on the turn card + action.
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Old 12-28-2005, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

It would take a very strong read to put BOTH opponents on draws here. With that said, your other option leaves you looking like you are drawing against two pair. You have the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so your Q 2 pair draw is good, 3 outs. I think it's safe to say that hitting your gutshot where the 10 is a heart is not a sure way to win.

They might very well already have a straight and you are drawing to 2 Ts.

Any way im looking at it, you have 6 BBs in the pot on the turn and at best have 5 clean outs.
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2005, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

[ QUOTE ]
lots of draw and 2 pair out there. I think I call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Is my hand strong enough to overcall on the turn?
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

[ QUOTE ]
Any way im looking at it, you have 6 BBs in the pot on the turn and at best have 5 clean outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I folded, I figured I had to be beat and the pot wasn't big enough to justify continuing with the hand.

Now that I've had some more time to think about the hand, I see that JT could be another likely hand for SB. If he would c/r 2-pair in this spot wouldn't he also c/r with TP OESD? Also given my read on SB as a TAG player and the fact that his play up to this point has been pretty straight foward. It's been about 30-ish hands or so. My gut tells me that he is more likely to bet out with 2-pair and slowplay a straight.
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